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Mastodon

You asked for it, and itโ€™s coming. Quote posts, search, and groups are on their way. In the meantime, check out the new onboarding experience launching today. blog.joinmastodon.org/2023/05/

635 comments
Flit ๐ŸฆŠ ๐Ÿ”ฅ

@Mastodon Can't wait to see the new features! The Fediverse keeps getting better and better - I can't wait for it to be in a state I can recommend to friends and family. ^^

Chema Hernรกndez Gil :sf:
Glad to hear quote posts are coming. Not because I wanted them, but because I am tired of reading the debate.
Ethan ๐ŸŒ’

this sucks and is only going to increase harassment of marginalized people

The Cuddlepunk Cub

@Mastodon please no quote posts. One of mastodons greats strengths is that it encourages interaction over attention seeking.
Quote posts are a massive step backwards.

Ben

@solarbear Quoting is an _integral_ aspect of how some communities interact, and is something I've seriously missed since coming to this platform.

(Matthew)=> return ๐Ÿณโ€๐ŸŒˆ๐Ÿ‡ฟ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐ŸŽฎ๐Ÿ’ป๐Ÿ“–

@ben_zen @solarbear quoting posts with an easily accessible hyperlink back to OP is also an integral aspect of social media dogpiles.

Ben

@mdstevens0612 respectfully, that already exists today, in way that does not provide for traceability. I can link to any post in another one, but there is no trace of the connection between the two the way a quote-post has.

So, to follow this to its most absurd conclusion, should posting hyperlinks be blocked?

Molly in Missouri

@solarbear @Mastodon i think it's too late. Hopefully a way to mute them, and opt out. I fled Twitter for the last time in 2016 after qt/dogpile accounts made it too damaging to my mental health. Fingers crossed, but worst case i find a server that prohibits them and blocks instances that allow them and we get right back to communicating.

the roamer

@whatzaname @solarbear @Mastodon

Perhaps that is tge future. Separation into two sub-networks: a viral Mastodon copying twitter features, and a proper Mastodon maintaining all those elements that support considered dialogue rather than broadcasting.

the roamer

@solarbear @Mastodon

Agree. A sad day. Those who aggressively demanded features supporting attention-grabbing broadcasting seem to have got what they wanted. We have to await implementation details, but my flags are on half-mask today.

epicEaston197

@solarbear @Mastodon
I don't see any issues with this if you can disable people being able to quote post it

๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€๐ŸŒˆ๐ŸŽƒ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ทLuana๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ท๐ŸŽƒ๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€๐ŸŒˆ :verified:

@Mastodon that new first screen on the official app is horrible tho. You should not prioritize a server over others, this just makes it more centralized.

Ryan Hamel

@luana @Mastodon Let me know how it goes telling Google not to make Gmail a recommendation for Chrome and Android, and Apple's iCloud for every device.

DELETED

@luana @mrhamel @Mastodon As each instance is a separate service provider with different policies and regulations (depending on hosting location and nationality of the owner), I can imagine Mastodon gGmbH doesnโ€™t want the legal trouble of automatically directing people to instances outside of their control. The curated server list and account migration is still available, but then the responsibility lies with the user.

Ryan Hamel

@luana @Mastodon Nothing is forcing you to use their app either, other apps exist.

๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€๐ŸŒˆ๐ŸŽƒ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ทLuana๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ท๐ŸŽƒ๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€๐ŸŒˆ :verified:

@mrhamel @Mastodon I donโ€™t, the app is horrible. But new users will more likely use the official app first, and recommending only the โ€œofficialโ€ instance is prejudicial to decentralization.

Ryan Hamel

@luana @Mastodon How is that any different from email? Gmail on Android, Outlook on Windows, iCloud for Apple. Every OS vendor has their own preloaded email app that prefers themselves. Email is decentralized at the protocol level, while advertising is what sways people to a particular provider.

AskPippa๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

@luana @Mastodon There must be a way to create an easy centralized sign-up method that assigns people to instances randomly (spread the love). Maybe include a short questionnaire to increase the odds they can be assigned to an instance they can relate to (say check off words on a list with key words expressing interests).

[DATA EXPUNGED]
nรกrodnรญ prase
@Mastodon is this a parody account or Eugen finally lost his mind?
Richard Lawler

@Mastodon when the new expewrience is live, what server are people going to be assigned to?

Jcrabapple

@rjcc @Mastodon The default is mastodon.social. Many of us are trying to convince them to rotate the default server among a few of the biggest, well-moderated servers.

AskPippa๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

@jcrabapple @rjcc @Mastodon I'm wondering if a sign-up could include a way to randomly assign people to instances. Use a short questionnaire with key words to help identify interests. Then using that info, randomly assign people to instances that use those key words.

Ryan Hamel

@jcrabapple @rjcc @Mastodon Who exactly comes up with this list? A centralized group of people...

Jcrabapple

@mrhamel @rjcc @Mastodon Haven't really considered how to get the list, honestly. Probably something along the same lines as the requirements to get on joinmastodon.org.

Anthony Dean

@rjcc @Mastodon looks like mastodon dot social is the default, per the app. Seeing some suggest the app should display several popular servers at random (per concerns about staying decentralized). Though mastodon dot social is the top search result in Google when searching "Mastodon" (well, after the rock group that had the name "Mastodon" first...).

Steve Dinn

@chpietsch @Mastodon I hear you. But they basically already exist because you can always link to another post. We may as well have some proper UI around them and get notified when they happen.

digitalcourage.social/@chpiets

Christian Pietsch ๐Ÿ‘

@steve Anyway, the bigger problem is that @Mastodon or rather @Gargron seems to have given up on decentralization. He thinks people are too dumb to understand the difference between a software and an instance running that software.

Hiker
@chpietsch I don't know what he is thinking, but it is the wrong way. @steve @Mastodon @Gargron
Jan Niklas Fingerle

@chpietsch
I, too, disagree with his decision. I do so without misrepresenting his reasoning.

@steve @Mastodon @Gargron

the roamer

@chpietsch @steve @Mastodon @Gargron

Agree on both items, QP and centralisation, it looks like a climbdown on both. Sad, sad day. And the vulgar "you asked for it..." language makes it worse.

Steve Dinn

@Mastodon I would love to have the ability to have an account in a list without having them in my home timeline. I tried muting, but that also mutes them in the list.

GunChleoc

@steve The ability to have an account in a list without having them in your home timeline is in progress ๐Ÿ™‚

joinmastodon.org/roadmap

@Mastodon

Two Teks in a trench coat

The "official" @Mastodon app now sends new users to overloaded megaservers by default.

Don't use the official app, and don't recommend it to new users. It's turning into a dedicated mastodon.social app, and isn't good general Mastodon experience, by design.

Leigh Silvester

@tek @Mastodon
I use Tusky a lot as it has some features I quite like such as the ability to easily flip between different accounts.

Don't know what the onboarding is like for it at the moment.

I kinda get having something other than an empty field for server name as I hear that people get daunted by the whole 'pick an instance ' thing.
Obviously we know it mostly doesn't matter, but when don't know then you don't know.

Perhaps select from a handful of servers

@tek @Mastodon
I use Tusky a lot as it has some features I quite like such as the ability to easily flip between different accounts.

Don't know what the onboarding is like for it at the moment.

I kinda get having something other than an empty field for server name as I hear that people get daunted by the whole 'pick an instance ' thing.
Obviously we know it mostly doesn't matter, but when don't know then you don't know.

Moe from NYC

@tek onboarding is perhaps the most important part of a good social network. It can make or break a potential user. I donโ€™t think Mastodon app providing an easy way to onboard people is a bad thing.

You shouldnโ€™t have to be too technical or savvy to enjoy a new potential social network. I get the idea of many servers but I would be lying if it didnโ€™t make this experience a bit sour.

User friendliness will always win.

Ryan Hamel

@tek @Mastodon Don't use the Gmail app for Android or Mail app on Apple devices then. Email is decentralized at the protocol level. it's the advertising of the provider that sets them apart.

Two Teks in a trench coat

Imagine that Google made an email app called "Email" that hid other email servers than their own unless you went looking for them.

That's how I feel about a mastodon.social client being called "Mastodon".

Paolo Amoroso

@Mastodon Great new features, thanks. What do you mean by groups? Something like discussion groups or communities?

[DATA EXPUNGED]
Dave Winer โ˜•๏ธ

@Mastodon

i read the piece about the new onboarding experience, maybe i missed it but it doesn't seem to say what the actual onboarding experience is.

Scott Jenson

@davew @Mastodon Agreed, a screenshot and description of what happens would have been helpful.

Scott Jenson

@matt @davew Yeah, they seem to be grousing about defaulting to a server instead of forcing a user to choose. I don't have time for that...

Stemy

@Mastodon God, did ypu lost your mind ? The absence of quote toots was specifically to reduce harassement, and proposing the flagship instance by default will ultimately kill the decentralized model.

Cody :collar:

@stemy@mstdn.social @Mastodon@mastodon.social Quoting has been a feature in ALL other fediverse software for years... if you're being harassed, notify your admin. As for the flagship instance... I don't know what you mean by this? does the new login page promote mastodon.social? I'm lost here...

the roamer

@stemy @Mastodon

Agreed in both points. Somebody suggested that this is a parody account. The strange commercialist style ("you asked for it ...") suggests it might be?

Stemy

@the_roamer @Mastodon Unfortunately, the account is validated by the official site, so it's indeed the official.

Sean

@stemy making it easier to sign up is infinitely more important than trying to get people to decide on servers when they know zero about mastodon.

Bene

@Mastodon Oh no. That means Mastodon being unusable for the next days because timelines being overcrowded with either:

- fedipolice explaining why onboarding on 1 server as default is evil vs. the I-want-it-to-be-like-twitter crowd explaining that it must be so

- fedipolice explaining why quoted tweets are bad vs. โ€žbut-bluesky-has-itโ€œ folk explaining why regular people need it. Both claim its because of marginalised people as well.

Glendon Mellow

@Mastodon @mcnees - Iโ€™m excited for the quote-posting. I often donโ€™t share, because I want to add context about why Iโ€™m sharing.

Gramix

@FlyingTrilobite I never actually boost posts much because sometimes I would only show it with a content warning, so if I can put cws on quote posts that would be great.

Simon Brooke

@Mastodon this is... Complex. It means that those of us who care about smaller #Mastodon communities will need to think about how to do our own proselytising and onboarding. This isn't to say that I think simplified onboarding is a bad idea, but there is a real problem here.

James Harris

@Mastodon As someone who was very much frustrated these "Quality of Life"-type features might never arrive, this is so great.

tromino :nb_verified: :nb_verified: :nb_verified:

@Mastodon@mastodon.social what's changing with search? one of the things I miss from when I used mastodon was that the search made it really easy to search for specific posts that I saw before

Patricio E

@Mastodon very glad to see Mastodon and the fediverse evolving!

(Matthew)=> return ๐Ÿณโ€๐ŸŒˆ๐Ÿ‡ฟ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐ŸŽฎ๐Ÿ’ป๐Ÿ“–

@Mastodon Not excited for quoteposts and searches to come around. Was enjoying the serenity of no dogpiles and living without trolls keyword searching for people to harass. Hopefully the masto community is above this, but I suspect history will repeat.

JustChapman

@Mastodon Say no to quote posts! It's a feature that turns toxic very quickly!

Erika ๐Ÿฆจ :therian: :veryiffied:

@Mastodon
> You asked for it, and itโ€™s coming.
> Quote posts, search

funny cause i didn't ask

Mike Buckley

@Mastodon great to see improvements to UX being prioritised โค๏ธ

Lethe
@Mastodon woah Mastodon is gonna become good??? Might switch for groups
CarlG

@Mastodon I'm not sure a default signup to their server is optimum, but they do need a simpler onboarding process, so maybe this is better than the apparent confusion that so many people apparently have.

I would prefer a "round-robin" type of sign-up where servers which meet a certain criteria so far as terms of service, age, and maybe even size, are rotated through a default, with the person having the option of selecting a different default at sign-up.

Matt ๐ŸŒป

@CarlG314 Feel free to add your feedback to this ongoing discussion (if you havenโ€™t already) github.com/mastodon/mastodon-i

Cefe ๐ŸŒˆ:verified_red:

@Mastodon yes! Really looking forward to quotes. โœจ

Alfredo Octavio

@Mastodon The castification of Mastodon has begun. ๐Ÿ˜ž

3dcandy

@Mastodon where can I see what is coming/planned please?

Boof Troupe

@Mastodon
default server defeats the point of a decentralized network

๐ŸฆŠ Professor Fig Fucking Dies ๐Ÿ‡ฐ๐Ÿ‡ฟ :therian:

@Mastodon wow thank you go fuck yourself. thanks for turning this place into another twatter

Kevin Russell

@Mastodon

We just surpassed a๐Ÿ‘‰ billion ๐Ÿ‘ posts per month which validates the very real and engaged conversations happening across Mastodon and the wider Fediverse.

Whoo Hooo!!

Stanford

@Mastodon Thanks for the new "onboarding experience" that NOBODY wanted!!

Growth above all!

ancient catbus

@Mastodon hmm not sure 'becoming twitter' is really what most people here were asking for but go off i guess lol

fenarinarsa :pokeball:

@Mastodon for those who are replying โ€œplease no quotesโ€, itโ€™s already implemented in several apps and even natively in iOSโ€ฆ

caos
@fenarinarsa It's been implemented for years in almost all Fediverse softwares except Mastodon - as well as groups and chats etc. @Mastodon
Claire Barnes

@Mastodon Very happy about quote posts and search! For those concerned about these features, I think opt-in controls should provide protection - but there are many legitimate uses and these are important features for some of us. Thank you for adding.

DELETED

@Mastodon Interested to see what "search" is going to mean. My understanding was that the search function worked the way it did as a byproduct of the Fediverse..

the roamer

@Mastodon

#QuotePosts, text-based #search --- ouch. It will be important to see how these are implemented, but it feels like a climbdown. A move toward attention-grabbing broadcasting, away from attention-giving dialogue.

Whatever happened to the slow, considered, anti-viral ethos of classical #MastodonCulture? Awaiting implementation details, but I am sceptical.

And an #onboarding process that sends everyone to one mega instance seems to be the opposite of #federation building.

Thanos Lefteris

@Mastodon Didn't ask for it. Especially the default server. Prioritizing growth over the ideology of that made mastodon what it is, will just turn it into a shitty Twitter clone. Since it's not possible to migrate post content from instance to instance, switching instance will be very painful. Also will be interesting how you are going to scale to a mega-instance, without forking out or making the main software more complicated to operate for small instances.

tuglaw

@Mastodon Isn't full account migration at the top of most requested features as well?

Rรฉmi

@Mastodon Please tell us this is optional and opt in rather than opt out. After all, we don't like scrapers, leaving it as opt out would only assist in more of these.

Brian Pepple :fedora: :python:

@Mastodon Contrary to what some other folks are saying, I think having a default server for new sign-ups is a decent solution, since that seems to be a big stumbling block for a lot of folks.

Deadly Headshot

@Mastodon
The first two are unwelcome - search should be opt-in, or you'll get the worst of bird-site over here...

Furby

@Mastodon I don't love this, but I can see why it simplifies onboarding for many people.

AskPippa๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ

@Mastodon I'm seen a lot of people express concern that this new sign-up approach directs everyone to the same instance (Social) and that this will weaken the Fediverse overall. Why not have a centralized sign-up that randomly assigns people to different instances (spread the love). Then, once people settle in they can move to other instances later on.
My prediction is that most people from Twitter (who are not tech savvy) will just stay there on Social. And some of the conversations I've seen argue that this will cause the number of accounts to reach a critical mass desirable to corporations or someone like Musk such that it will be bought out. Can you really turn down $15-20mil?
The idea of a random assignment could even include a short questionnaire to help place people on an instance they might relate to (ie. answers could help eliminate or add in certain ones that they could then be assigned to. Answers could even be used to help generate a short list of only 3 or 4 instances to choose from).

@Mastodon I'm seen a lot of people express concern that this new sign-up approach directs everyone to the same instance (Social) and that this will weaken the Fediverse overall. Why not have a centralized sign-up that randomly assigns people to different instances (spread the love). Then, once people settle in they can move to other instances later on.
My prediction is that most people from Twitter (who are not tech savvy) will just stay there on Social. And some of the conversations I've seen argue...

Dick Smiths Fair Go Supporters

@Mastodon
For those thinking of forking Mastodon, please do so in a safe environment such as on the #InvisibleInternetProtocol (#I2P).

- Consider removing the 'Explore' timeline (*cough* botfarm timeline)
- Consider #makeJavascriptOptional
- Consider not showing like and boost counts until a person actively opens the toot thread.
- Consider not implementing the #antifeatures mentioned above.

In wartime, artists are the first to be targetted. Please #useI2P and live.

@Mastodon
For those thinking of forking Mastodon, please do so in a safe environment such as on the #InvisibleInternetProtocol (#I2P).

- Consider removing the 'Explore' timeline (*cough* botfarm timeline)
- Consider #makeJavascriptOptional
- Consider not showing like and boost counts until a person actively opens the toot thread.
- Consider not implementing the #antifeatures mentioned above.

[DATA EXPUNGED]
Dan Gero

@Mastodon I get why the onboarding experience is a thing, but I think this is a bad idea. It encourages growth for the sake of growth, which isn't good. It's causing Mastodon to become more centralized to mastodon.social along with other issues. I would suggest having a wizard that asks newcomers about their interests, shows them a list of servers based on those interests, and picks a server for them if they tell it to. Over 400 people agree this is a bad idea. github.com/mastodon/mastodon-i

@Mastodon I get why the onboarding experience is a thing, but I think this is a bad idea. It encourages growth for the sake of growth, which isn't good. It's causing Mastodon to become more centralized to mastodon.social along with other issues. I would suggest having a wizard that asks newcomers about their interests, shows them a list of servers based on those interests, and picks a server for them if they tell it to. Over 400 people agree this is a bad idea. github.com/mastodon/mastodon-i

It's Just Jenn ๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€โšง๏ธ

@Mastodon it remains a philosophical question as to whether quote boosts are a good idea. BUT...it's what people want. Will I use it? Yes of course. Time will tell if it was a good thing or not.

Martin ๐Ÿง€

@Mastodon not convinced by the "using mastodon.social by default is good for decentralization" argument. There are ways to suggest different servers in nice ways (but it's more difficult, sure).

Comfortably Numb๐Ÿฆ‹

@Mastodon So the solution to easier onboarding everybody should create accounts on mastodon.social. See, this is why people are flocking to Bluesky.

[DATA EXPUNGED]
D. Scarnecchia

@Mastodon This is great, and comes on the heels of some research that shows that Quote posts are not a uniquely toxic feature! absolutelymaybe.plos.org/2023/

mellowfish

@Mastodon federation *is* your product. Do better with the onboarding experience, you canโ€™t just recommend your own massive central server.

Michael Downey ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ณ

@Mastodon

โš ๏ธ [BUG] App onboarding is directing new users to join mastodon.social by default

github.com/mastodon/mastodon-i

[DATA EXPUNGED]
Eshu Marneedi

@Mastodon Yay, really excited for search especially.

METADESTROYER !! (He/Him)

@Mastodon Thanks, I really want more #HinduExtremists and indian #fascists to be able to sign up through .social without proper moderation philosophy and exercise, and be able to poison the #fediverse. /s

piebob โœจ

@Mastodon i'm cool with quote posts, i just hope there's an option so folks can disallow it on their own posts as desired. maybe per-post, but definitely per-account.

Dr Phil(ip) Betts

@Mastodon all of this news delights me, sounds great and looking forward to it. Thanks! โœŒ๏ธ

Paul Nicholas :pico8: :vscode:

@Mastodon Quote-posting was always going to be a sensitive one. Hopefully, it'll be implemented with enough thought to protect those that could be most vulnerable to abuse.

I'm def looking forward to be able to search my own posts. Have lost count of how much I relied on doing that on hellsite to find refs to past work I did, etc.

Nordnick :verified:

@Mastodon

As others already mentioned, not sure, if this goes into the right direction...

... regarding groups, technical details of implementation would be nice.

Manc AvGeek

@Mastodon
I never asked for quote posts, or full text search.
Hopefully these things are opt-in at a user level, preferably at instance level.
Will the ability to be searched/quoted only apply to those on the latest version, or will users be able to quote people on slightly older Masto versions.
I know that it was possible previously to implement ElasticSearch, which had a tendency to bring all but the beefier servers to their knees - will this overwhelm smaller servers?

Cregg

@Mastodon not sure how I feel about quote toots...

Default server is great though. Can't get a single real life friend on Mastodon right now cause the server selection option is confusing/overwhelming to non-tech folks. This will certainly help with that. Hopefully server migrations can get a bit easier so decentralization can still work fluidly.

Lea (headpat dispenser)

@Mastodon@mastodon.social finally catching up to what the better alternatives had for ages! โ€‹:amazed:โ€‹

Jeroen Baert

@Mastodon Excellent! Thank you for all the hard work!

rtswiz

@Mastodon this seems awesome to me, I really fail to see how this would restrict or harm decentralization but I expect to see a lot of that argument being thrown around in the next few days.

Ram

@Mastodon this is amazing. to folks worried about centralizing things too much, what's the point of a social network that's pure as the driven snow but as barren as antarctica?

:flag: ืชึทึผืขึฒืœึปืžื•ึนืช

@Mastodon The people who think this is the wrong move are wrong btw. Thank you and good job.

Mark A. {FalconMarkSix}

@Mastodon You should've put out polls to see what the popularity would be for any of these "features". :blobcatgrimacing:

nanobot567

@Mastodon Ok, quote toots are cool, but having mastodon.social as the default instance is a terrible idea! Mastodon is going to become another Twitter if we keep going in that direction, and nobody wants that.

Rob Bos

@Mastodon Centralizing new signups onto mastodon.social by default could create a problem long-term. I worry that you guys won't be able to handle the moderation load, and that it makes the ecosystem vulnerable to purchase by a bad actor.

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