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Ryan Hamel

@luana @Mastodon Let me know how it goes telling Google not to make Gmail a recommendation for Chrome and Android, and Apple's iCloud for every device.

30 comments
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@luana @mrhamel @Mastodon As each instance is a separate service provider with different policies and regulations (depending on hosting location and nationality of the owner), I can imagine Mastodon gGmbH doesnโ€™t want the legal trouble of automatically directing people to instances outside of their control. The curated server list and account migration is still available, but then the responsibility lies with the user.

Ryan Hamel

@luana @Mastodon Nothing is forcing you to use their app either, other apps exist.

๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€๐ŸŒˆ๐ŸŽƒ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ทLuana๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ท๐ŸŽƒ๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€๐ŸŒˆ :verified:

@mrhamel @Mastodon I donโ€™t, the app is horrible. But new users will more likely use the official app first, and recommending only the โ€œofficialโ€ instance is prejudicial to decentralization.

Ryan Hamel

@luana @Mastodon How is that any different from email? Gmail on Android, Outlook on Windows, iCloud for Apple. Every OS vendor has their own preloaded email app that prefers themselves. Email is decentralized at the protocol level, while advertising is what sways people to a particular provider.

Danny Boling โ˜ฎ๏ธ

@luana @Mastodon @mrhamel

We shouldn't want to be like Apple, Google or Microsoft anyway. We're different and proud of it. Right?

Ryan Hamel

@IAmDannyBoling @luana @Mastodon All depends on how you want to gain adoption. Adding friction by making a user select from a myriad of unknown servers would make the process all the more difficult. That new user may not know the admin/moderation team, and their account could disappear tomorrow without a trace. Mastodon is not novice friendly.

Danny Boling โ˜ฎ๏ธ

@mrhamel @luana @Mastodon

I'll repeat: Nobody is "adding" friction. It's already there. And it hasn't prevented millions of people from signing up. Could it be made easier? Probably. But if it's done like Big Tech wants it done, THAT will assuredly kill Mastodon.

Vi

@mrhamel @Mastodon @luana But that is bad. You see how that is bad, right?

Ryan Hamel

@vi @Mastodon @luana Do you understand that Analysis Paralysis is a thing? Giving people too many options will cause problems, let alone them choosing the wrong server and something happens to that user or the server.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis

Vi

@mrhamel @luana @Mastodon Of all the possible solutions to that, obscuring that choice to users seems sloppy at best. We all know where that road ends.

Ryan Hamel

@vi @luana @Mastodon How do you come up with a list of well moderated and/or big servers, without any sort of (centralized) committee?

Vi replied to Ryan

@luana @Mastodon @mrhamel That was what was there before, wasnโ€™t it? Maybe not the ideal solution, but at least it presented the choice and something fundamental about the decentralized nature of the fediverse. If there was room for improvement, then improve it. Not just take it away.

Peter Kal replied to Vi

@vi @luana @Mastodon @mrhamel
People don't wanna know how their social media platform works, they just wanna use it. People also don't like change, there is a reason why many people don't like twitter but they are not willing to migrate. Making the sing-up process simpler and more straightforward, while also ensuring that users want go on a instance where their moderators see racism as nothing wrong, its a win for mastodon's UX. For the de/tion, it takes more users from centralized platforms.

๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€๐ŸŒˆ๐ŸŽƒ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ทLuana๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ท๐ŸŽƒ๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€๐ŸŒˆ :verified: replied to Peter

@peterkal @Mastodon @mrhamel @vi And then when all mastodon users are in mastodon dot social, an idiot can just buy it and own most of the fediverse because people arenโ€™t encouraged to choose a smaller server anymore. Great idea.

Peter Kal replied to ๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€๐ŸŒˆ๐ŸŽƒ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ทLuana๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ท๐ŸŽƒ๐Ÿณ๏ธโ€๐ŸŒˆ

@luana @Mastodon @mrhamel @vi
No, its different.
Moving from mastodon.social to another instance is not as hard as moving to twitter to fediverse. All it takes is some clicks with the people you follow and your followers coming with you.

Zeke replied to Peter

@peterkal @luana @Mastodon @mrhamel @vi that's not true if your account is suspended. Ask me how I know (it's because I was suspended from masto.ai with no stated cause or warning)

Peter Kal replied to Zeke

@Zeke @luana @Mastodon @mrhamel @vi
True, but still is easier for your followers to, well..
follow you.

Zeke replied to Peter

@peterkal @luana @Mastodon @mrhamel @vi In my case, I was not able to set up the redirect from my banned account, so what I could export was the list of people I followed, but not my followers (or properly, I could export a csv list of them too, but no way to say 'hey, I've moved' and they're still following the old account instance)

I don't see an easy solution here

Oliver ๐Ÿ‘”

@luana @mrhamel @Mastodon It's the entry for newbies, people do Look around after a while. I barely see users using the official app who are around for >1yr.
For those who arrive, after all the stories I've read from strangers at the bird site, this decision was urgently needed.

j.r

@oliver @luana @mrhamel @Mastodon but one could have gone the way of selecting a random server for example, if the user does not want to decide, but no, they all have to land on the single biggest instance, what could possibly go wrong...

Oliver ๐Ÿ‘”

@jr @luana @mrhamel @Mastodon Different instances have different sets of rules. With Matrix, I also had the experience that others have had here as well: Overnight, the domain and thus the account including content was gone.
In addition, you would then have the problem if, for example, Japanese-speaking users land on an instance that is used by 95% of German-speaking people.
Personally, I think it's fine that there is this instance for newbies.

j.r

@oliver @luana @mrhamel @Mastodon yeah I mean you could have gone not totally random, but joinmastodon.org already has a list, that know technically more or less okay servers with interest fields and language. So you could have just asked the user for their primary post language and what stuff they are interested in and select a random server from the list based on this facts...

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@mrhamel @luana @Mastodon I wonder if there's a difference between Google and Mastodon that might be the primary draw for the latter

Danny Boling โ˜ฎ๏ธ

@mrhamel @luana @Mastodon

Are you saying Masto should be more like Google and Apple? Surely not.

Ryan Hamel

@IAmDannyBoling @luana @Mastodon What's more important to you, the ease of adoption into the ActivityPub federation, or decentralization to the point that the platform is unusable by anyone but geeks and nerds?

Danny Boling โ˜ฎ๏ธ

@mrhamel @luana @Mastodon

Nobody's asking for it to become /more/ decentralized. It's fine just like it is, and apparently that's not a problem for millions of users who aren't geeks or nerds.

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