@mbonsma

Absolutely, the person who gets behind the wheel of a 4,000 lb machine is the one who needs to assume responsibility for the safety of everyone they encounter. If that’s too terrifying or onerous for drivers, they have an option: don’t drive. Driving is a responsibility not a right.

@mbonsma Plus if drivers aren't watching out for "distracted" pedestrians then they aren't watching out for people with disabilities. People with hearing/vision impairments are also pedestrians.

@mbonsma
THIS!
Because these things make walking fun, enjoyable, a pleasurable pastime. Also, that stuff set's walking apart from driving a car, where all you see is metal and concrete, most of the time (unless your in a traffic jam, ofc)

@mbonsma
Pedestrians aren't the problem. Cars are... But - just like if you take a walk in the woods, it behooves you to be alert to the possibility of bears, if you walk in cities full of cars, trucks & buses, it is your responsibility to follow pedestrian protocols & laws that are meant to help you stay safe. Pedestrians can't get lost in thought or a podcast while crossing busy streets. Even bikes can run you down!

@mbonsma

Correct, it is not the pedestrian that is the problem.

But will that matter to the dead pedestrian?

We *can* largely solve this through technology, but this is not the time to consider wholesale replacement of older vehicles.

@mbonsma but many pedestrians are so distracted they can't cope with a bike approaching slowly. Or even another person walking. Being lost inside your mobile device and moving around in a public space is not a great combination.

@mbonsma Staying safe is everyone's responsibility - period. If you're a distracted pedestrian who jaywalks or doesn't see the "Do Not Cross" sign and walks anyway, you're just as liable if a car hits you.

@mbonsma you have the right to be killed by a car for not paying attention when you venture out in the road you realize that their are cars their. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT to walk on sidewalks those are made for you as pedestrian and you can do whatever. IF YOU don't want to play well with cars in the streets or in cross walks which are shared prop. OKAY, it's your funeral. that's how it works...you can blame the driver if you're dead

@mbonsma
Lady has probably never been hit by a bicycle - ridden by someone who also felt that listening to music and being distracted was his right.

@mbonsma unfortunately many bicyclist also react harshly to pedestrians blocking their way these days. The problem often is poor city planning.

@mbonsma

I find that if I walk on a pedestrian path, and stop and apply simple common sense at any crossing... and follow the rules... I don't have to worry about cars. As a responsible human being, I must take responsibility for my actions and be aware of my surroundings

Same when I'm driving... I'm aware of my surroundings, I'm responsible for my actions.

The only problem is when somebody feels entitled that they don't have to be responsible and aware of what they are doing and it's impact

@mbonsma , although I agree, when you are run over by a car it no longer matters who was at fault. This is why I often tell my kids that it matters little how good I am behind the wheel, but the sum of every car I meet while driving. The white (or yellow) line in the road is not a magical barrier. So yes, one has to move about defensively as if your life depends on it, and that is especially true for pedestrians.

@mbonsma I kinda don't want to be slammed into by a cargo e-bike, or a bus, or the light rail either

@mbonsma you can also be mindful to your surroundings too. Don't expect a perfect world.
Humans will always be humans.

@mbonsma It's fine to point out the "should" ideals, but physics and flawed humanity are still a thing. Keep your eyes peeled!

@mbonsma I completely disagree. You are responsible for your own conduct and your safety is no one's responsibility but yours. If you walk around oblivious to your surroundings something bad will happen to you and you deserve it.

That said it's always possible for both sides to be wrong. It's wrong to be clueless twit walking across a parking lot while looking at your phone. It's also wrong for a driver to run that person over.

@mbonsma

even if we stipulate that this is true, today, and tomorrow, and for the foreseable future, your children and loved ones will die if they don't pay attn

@mbonsma ich wohne am Land und bin meist Fußgänger, auf Straßen die keinen Gehsteig haben... würde ich nicht aufpassen wäre mein Leben vorbei... bin schon froh wenn mal einer langsamer wird beim Vorbeifahren oder etwas Abstand hält...

@mbonsma So many carbrains in the replies glossed over the 'should' 🤦

@mbonsma PREACH! Sometimes you don't even need to be distracted - I got hit while walking in the crosswalk during the walk signal!

@mbonsma So, great, there are no cars nearby, but you just trampled Mrs. Henry's flower bed, caused a bicycler to have to swerve and run into a fence, and then fell down a manhole and broke both legs.

Watch where you're going.

@mbonsma None of that absolves you from safely crossing a street. You still need to look both ways before you step off a curb. You still have to ensure that the drivers see you before you step in front of their moving vehicles. You may have the right-of-way at crosswalks, but that is meaningless if you get hit by a car.

@mbonsma Yes but then cars are the problem and we can't have that... 🙃

@mbonsma And beside such whimsical, enthralled spells being natural they are plenty exhilarating fun!

@mbonsma agree completely. When I cycle amongst the CARS, I try to own the road as much as possible without getting myself into danger. I think it actually works. Maybe car drivers are getting the message slowly.

@mbonsma Yes, and No. Yes, I don't expect people to be paying full attention to what they are doing all the time. BUT, neither do I think it is sensible or reasonable to expect that you can just wander alongside a busy road and presume that the car-drivers will put right your every mistake (sometimes it won't be possible, and sometimes, they won't have their full attention on things, and if that's okay for you, it should also be accepted that it will happen to them). 1/2

@mbonsma and cars are a relatively 'new' creation by humans, in the entire existence of humanity.

@mbonsma As citizens of a country sharing a space, we should all make things as easy as possible for others to share that space sensibly and safely. Obviously, the more vulnerable need extra care and consideration given to them, but that doesn't exonerate them completely. Because, if you were to presume that, then you would presume that I don't have to take care walking around the house when someone else is walking around with scissors or a knife in hand...

@mbonsma As a part time motorist, if a pedestrian walks across the crossing while it is red, I should have the right to sue you for the damages to my vehicle.

@mbonsma When I was 16 and given the offer to learn to drive, or skip learning... I chose, based on what I knew about myself, to not learn to drive a 1-ton bullet, because I knew I was easily distracted.

Ooo butterfly!

@mbonsma

Walking around without situational awareness is a recipe for a mugging, SA, etc let alone vehicle collisions.

One of the first things taught in the motorcycle safety course was "Do you want to be right or to you want to survive? Plenty of motorcyclists could legitimately have 'they had the right of way' as an epitaph."

@mbonsma lately I've been making it a point to purposely jaywalk wherever safely possible. Jaywalking laws don't protect pedestrians, they keep drivers from being held liable for killing pedestrians

@mbonsma Totally agree, and I've also had my white cane snapped near the bottom countless times because pedestrians weren't doing a great job of watching out for other pedestrians.

@mbonsma 100% agree that it should be safe for people to walk around - but it should be noted that pedestrians and cyclists navigating busy areas do not have the right to be distracted (ie. looking down at a phone) because we live in a society and respecting one another within that means being aware of other people using public space and not dangerously getting in their way.

@mbonsma thanks for your strong words, however I disagree about the right to listen to music part.

If you choose to isolate yourself in your bubble by completely removing one of your senses 🙉 , it comes with some responsibility (TBD). It's not completely neutral.

I would also speculate that there is a reason why hearing is a sense that you can't easily shutdown.

I'm a strong advocate for cycling, walking, public transport, all of which need to be articulated in a clever way.

#technococoon

@mbonsma🇺🇸# Investing in cryptocurrencies is a wise choice, it is important to note that the market system is highly yielding massive profit eversince l started trading with mr Rick Heitzmann my financial standard has changed alot infact I have no worries of paying my bills any more 💯###

@mbonsma

Seriously, I am doing my part to avoid accidents by waiting for the light to change, crossing at a crosswalk, etc.

Why can't I enjoy music while I do it?

@mbonsma
True but don’t be dead right. You can’t wag your finger at the driver from the grave.

@mbonsma cars. And bikes. And scooters. And skateboards. And other pedestrians. To be honest, as a blind person, I’m sick of sighted people, whatever their means of transport might be, who do anything except looking at the road and fail to notice me standing there.

@mbonsma

This is such an insane point of view that's screams entitlement. If you want to share the road with cars you should be equally as attentive.

A huge part of being a good driver is being predictable & proactive.

Someone who can't even spend 2 seconds to be aware, or demonstrate to drivers that they are aware is unpredictable, dangerous, and ultimately stressful.

@mbonsma

I agree in principle, but as a bicyclist whose life and safety are endangered on a daily basis by earbud-wearing pedestrians who jay walk while looking at their phones, I think there are some nuances you're not getting. EVERYONE needs to pay attention and obey the rules of the road. This applies to pedestrians, bicyclists and ESPECIALLY motorists.

@mbonsma I’m gonna keep looking both ways and making eye contact with drivers before I cross the street. I’m not gonna pretend they don’t have blind spots.

@mbonsma Disctracted pedestrians are also a danger for other traffic participants such as other pedestrians, cyclists, skaters etc. Those people also expect you to be aware of your environment, and if you don't you risk both your and their health.
Claiming that is your right to be distracted while you are in a public space where other people also want to use the streets and sidewalks is disrespectful towards them and their wishes.

This post is about this ad:
https://richmond.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=2122&languageId=1&contentId=81511

If you are interested in some context for how we got to this terrible place as a society, please read 'The forgotten history of how automakers invented the crime of "jaywalking"'

https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history

@mbonsma the laws of physics win every time. If I’m on the highway and a big rig starts to come into my lane, it doesn’t matter that I have the right of way. It’s all about weight and velocity. Get out of the way or die.

@mbonsma This week I had a driver in a large pickup truck stalk me because I had the temerity to use a cross walk he was crossing. He went around the block several times staring at me, obviously trying to drive his death machine closer to me, so I kept taking strange turns and eventually ducked into an alleyway and managed to lose him. It was pretty scary.

@mbonsma if we simply refer to them as rogue-one-ton-death-machines I think it would clear up much of the language 😈

@mbonsma Except, like the traffic police likes to say, the cemetery is full of people who had the right of way. Instead, let's ban cars from cities entirely. No need whatsoever if public transport is good.

@mbonsma we are not the problem. We are prey.
Prey doesn't get to wander about carelessly or distractedly. Prey must be vigilant in watching for predators.

@mbonsma one of the biggest absurdity in our cities. Fortunately, things start to change in some places and these heavy, polluting, non-ecological means of transport are more and more unwelcome in city centers.

@mbonsma I can't believe I read all these comments.

Everybody should be aware of their surroundings when unawareness increases risk for themselves or others around them.

Everything else is just Internet noise

@mbonsma Pedestrians every right to be distracted and walk into a wall, bump into someone, step in dog sh1t, fall into a ditch, step into a manhole hidden by rainfall, take a long walk off a short pier, walk into oncoming traffic, etc. No one ever said it was smart.

@mbonsma
"Cars" are a thing of the past. The real danger comes from "SUV" sports utility vehicles. Their drivers are in another world - high up, stereos blasting, screens the size of TVs to distract them.

Where's the 'sport' in careering round town, taking up two parking slots and ignoring any 'lesser' vehicles?

Tax weight and tax it hard

@mbonsma my wife sat on the kerb with a girl until the paramedics arrived. She had her earphones in and walked in front of a car. You blame the driver, the girl blamed herself for being stupid. And if someone reading their phone walks into a lamppost it's the lampoon's fault. We were taught in the 50s how to safely cross the road. Listening was part of it

@mbonsma
On the other hand, when I am walking you should not run in to me because you are so focused on yourself or your phone. You do not own the sidewalk or the street, or every bench. Learn some manners.

@mbonsma

I frequently do all of those things while not worrying in the least about getting killed. Hell, I’m frequently not only distracted, but also drunk.

I just stay on the sidewalk when I’m doing something that distracts me and pay more attention to my surroundings when I’m crossing a street. It’s honestly not that hard.

@mbonsma What a ridiculous statement, you sound like you are the problem. Despite the laws and safety measures in place, you can't beat stupid with stupid. You can't trust anyone with your own safety, except your self.

@mbonsma Children are always distracted pedestrians and need to be considered exactly that by motorists.

@mbonsma That's true, however I still have almost gotten hit bc stupid drivers aren't paying attention.

@mbonsma@mastodon.social replace cars with cute gay kittys and foxes to headpat ​:neocat_pat:​​:neofox_pat_snug:​

@mbonsma

And everyone else have survival instincts... ;-)

@mbonsma
same principle applicable to cyclists on cycling lanes
there are some very cocky that don't care if a pedestrian crosses the line, with an irresistible impulse to hit specially small kids
end of rant

@mbonsma

"If we can build a successful city for children, we will have a successful city for all." — Enrique Penalosa

https://www.archdaily.com/987273/why-we-should-create-cities-for-children

@mbonsma I wonder if this discussion existed in the time of horseriders and carriages 🤔 So like at least 3.000 years. Walking mindlessly in front of one of these could easily result in severe injuries or death. So I disagree, cars are not the problem.

It’s your damn responsibility to keep yourself alive while walking, anywhere, anytime. No matter if you step in front of a car (or horse drawn carriage) or just trip over a tree root and break your neck because you had to admire your surroundings.

@mbonsma I fully support the notion that drivers should exercise caution by reducing their speed, silencing their sound systems, avoiding distractions from in-car screens, rolling down their windows, and assuming their due responsibility, given the potential lethality of their vehicles. However, I do not concur with the idea that pedestrians or individuals in general possess an inherent right to be distracted. This approach is dangerous on the street and in the wilderness alike.

@mbonsma
And bicycles, of course. Or e-scooters. Or other padestrians.

Lots of things outside require our attension and could be dangerous if we, or they, are careless.

@mbonsma
All ok for the relation pedestrian / car, but there are cyclists, too, and the most dangerous situation I experienced in the past year while cycling has been brought to me by a "jaywalking" pedestrian, who had nearly kicked me off track while him remaining unharmed.
=> Yes, in a car, I need to take extreme care (= go slow) while driving past people.
No, pedestrians cannot be exempted from taking mutual care.

@mbonsma My parents taught me when I was old enough to look both ways before I crossed the street. It’s pretty basic but I think it’ll work now as well.

@mbonsma infrastructure that made car drivers feel the need to pay more attention (slimer lanes, more pedestrain safety barriers near intersections, etc) are the answer. Our road design was created by humans and can be changed by humans, we just need to value people over level of (car) service.

@mbonsma @daihard this is so good 😊

@mbonsma As a sometime pedestrian (both slow and fast) myself, I disagree. Other people's inattention affects my safety, not just directly but also because drastically increasing the number of things drivers have to watch out for reduces the chance that they'll see *me* trying to cross the street.

Erratic people increase danger for all. In the reality we inhabit, which includes cars, we are *all* in this together and should behave like it.

@mbonsma feels like the whole 'jaywalking' thing repeating itself, victim blaming

@mbonsma This makes no sense, and I've been a pedestrian a lot longer than a driver. If walking out into traffic, you need to act like cars are big things that can only stop so fast. You also need to pay attention to curbs, uneven sidewalks, ice on sidewalks, the poles, the edges of cliffs, people who push strollers in front of you, bicyclists who think they don't need to stop for anyone...

If you're talking about cars hopping sidewalks...

@mbonsma @Gargron No. It should not. Everybody in traffic needs to be attentive and aware of the risks. Pedestrians should not be put into unnecessary danger, but they should not not be excepted from their duties as traffic participants. Btw, also the laws say so.

@mbonsma
I reserve the right to clothesline any pedestrian walking directly toward me on the sidewalk while staring down at their phone.

@mbonsma Actually this is inaccurate. Particularly in countries where there's a lot ot cyclists, pedestrian-cyclist collisions (and associated fatalities) are fairly common.

In addition to that there's a fair amount of fatalities due to unattentive pedestrians tripping and falling, etc.

Using this kind of misinformation to further your political goals at a risk to others is... Unfortunate to say the least.

@mbonsma Absolutely. As long as you stay on the pavement.

@mbonsma lol no. This isn't a car thing, if you have no idea where you're going or what's going on around you, what the hell are you even doing? Where's the dog in the middle of the street? And you do understand that using your peripheral vision you can be aware of your surroundings while observing the scenery, right? If you cab do these things you can be aware of cars. Sorry not sorry but i don't support your right to shut your brain off and make yourself a problem to everyone around you.

@mbonsma Sorry, no. As peds, it is our responsibility to LOOK OUT FOR OURSELVES and be safe. Yes, car drivers need to look out for peds, but to be oblivious while walking is just as entitled as drivers not looking for peds/bicyclists. No one lives in a vacuum and can be self absorbed while travelling/interacting with others.

@mbonsma @aral
Whilst I totally agree with this sentiment and feeling, at the same time, don't walk into the road in the same frame of mind, distraction: that's just begging for trouble!

@mbonsma agreed, except the listen to music part: keep one ear open whenever you share room with another transportation stream, such as bicycles, cars, or even those annoying e-scooters, so you can hear the bells

@mbonsma post-Covid (2020) I am seeing cars and trucks running red lights nearly every traffic light change - it seems to be the new rule. Every day I can see a car or truck run a red light so late, they have sped over a green pedestrian crossing light. Every day you can witness a car drive past trams that have opened their doors to let passengers out. Maybe it is my post-covid addled brain, but I don’t recall seeing this level of danger occurring all the time like it does today.

@mbonsma it’s not only pedestrians who are endangered either. Cars are remaking the world outside of cities too.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-18/bribie-island-4wds-killing-endangered-baby-turtles/102986340

@mbonsma Sod off, swampy.

@mbonsma @chu

What about pedestrians who walk through don't walk signals with ear buds on, screaming into their phone, completely oblivious to to oncoming traffic, including bicyclists (happens to me, a bicyclist, almost every day)? Should that REALLY by a right?

I'm as opposed to car culture as y'all are. Arguing that pedestrians shouldn't have to pay attention to what's going on around them isn't going to advance the agenda.

@mbonsma We design our cities to live in. Why have we designed them to be so dangerous? Many roads are just not designed for pedestrains at all. There can be kilometres between pedestrian crossings. And our kids need to be safe.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-18/teenage-boy-dies-hit-truck-appin-road-illawarra/102991870

@mbonsma Pedestrians could be wearing a helmet and padded high-vis clothing in a raised crosswalk, and car culture would still find a way to blame them.

@mbonsma cars, holes, rivers, lamp posts. Some responsibility is required here.

@mbonsma @Gargron I’m sorry, but that’s wrong thinking, even dangerous. Cars can break while driving without driver’s fault and lose their controllability, driver can pass out and so on…

EACH traffic participant should be focused. No matter if he’s driver, biker or pedestrian.

@mbonsma do you include BUSES in the CARS category? 😅

@mbonsma You’re forgetting bicycles going high-speed on the sidewalk

@mbonsma damn white-collar pedestrians really hate that I have to drive in traffic to do my job. Really ruins their vibes during their lunch break walks, huh