@chu And then tell her about what happens to critical agriculture…

@chu Climate collapse will make covid look like a simple vehicle collision.

@chu For many people most modern infrastructure is functionally magic. No idea where it comes from (e.g. electricity) or where it goes (e.g. sewage). It just does.

@chu Wow. I thought it was that everyone was just resigned to it.

@chu A small part of this scenario plays through my mind every time we lose electricity.

In my area, we're on wells for household water and the pumps require electricity. When the power is out, so is our water. So when a power disruption affects both our well pump and the local stores where we could purchase potable water, we have a problem.

@chu

Yet our Great President has increased Fossil Fuel Production to a RECORD in 2022, and will increase the amount for a NEW Record in 2023.

And Liberals Love Him

@chu That's quite a story, and I feel for you for having to go through that with your friend. The veneer of civilization is really thin, and most people don't realize just how thin it is.

I think about the Asimov short story "Nightfall" a lot. What happens when all the lights go out everywhere? People find things to burn.

@chu They cannot imagine. Nor do they grasp the disease and malnutrition that will decimate many others, because they can’t imagine hospitals also need people and electricity to function. Nor do they understand what flooding does to water treatment facilities. And it’s almost impossible to show them the connections between events.

@chu Obviously someone who wasn't in Texas in the winter of 2021,
Because the loss of electricity like this has already happened...

But back to your point, most people don't think about things they take for granted (food, water, electricity etc) but once all those support items disappear then they realize that was the important stuff all along.

@chu Don't need anybody to maintain wires. My cell is wireless, and runs on a battery.

@chu I so want this person to try to grow enough broccoli for their own current rate of consumption of broccoli.

@chu one slightly positive effect is that many solutions dealing with social issues will also help with climate issues. Anyway, infrastructure is invisible: Water comes out of the tap and electricity out of a socket.

@chu go slow but now explain how fresh water to towns and cities works…🫠

@chu

consider what it means when planning itself becomes futile because we can’t reasonably assume what future conditions will be. if we can’t reasonably understand what a bridge, farm or dam will encounter, what does planning at scale mean?

https://youtu.be/x-fAJ_7YaAc

@chu

Counterpoint: if the fascists are able to maintain any semblance of power, all the problems associated with them will get much worse under climate disaster. Remember: the DoD believes in climate change, but their plan is to militarize the borders with redundant systems, not install more solar panels.

#BoostPrécédent En fait les gens se sont mis dans la tête que l'eau du robinet et les comptes en banque c'était un phénomène naturel genre. Et le facteur et les routiers c'est un résultat de l'évolution des espèces.

@chu I had a similar jolt of disbelief when I talked to a company director on parental leave about the Snowden revelations.

Intercepting, archiving and mining packet switched communications is undetectable and cheap for a nation state. At the time of that conversation, I had lived for more than a decade with the assumption that every government with internet access was already doing this. To hear an informed intelligent person's surprise at hearing that the US was doing this was startling.

@chu People who've experienced massive power outages understand that no power is not just no lights at home, it's no ATMs, gas stations (pumps), purchases from stores relying on computers...

@chu but why wouldn't the people be available to fix that infrastructure? I'm not saying it would not be a problem but it's not like the entire grid would go off at once and nobody could restore any part of it, is it?

@chu

I always show people the first episode of 'Connections' by James Burke.

https://yt.artemislena.eu/watch?v=XetplHcM7aQ

@chu over and over, I refer to infrastructure as having functionally become “magic” for many people, in the sense of Asimov’s quote, “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”

The abstraction of its complexity from our everyday interactions papers over the interdependencies. The consequences of this for the baseline understanding our our systems’ fragility is every bit as troubling as you point it out to be.

@chu

Wait until they realize there is no food.

@chu I think we will see a gradual collapse rather than a sudden one. Still catastrophic, mind you...

@chu@climatejustice.social We're effectively self-domesticated animals and we've become like our pets in that none of us fully understand the systems that care for us.

@chu

We all were born, raised & had our kids inside a machine that provided us with the means to achieve its goals. GDP through non stop growth.

Even on Jupiter that isn't possible for ever!

Consequently many people cannot imagine an outside view of our system because it has always provided needs & comforts for them.

So any thinking it to be wrongly operating against their future isn't possible for them, so they fight all discussion for change.

That's toxic conservatism by those satisfied.

@chu

People need to watch more apocalyptic movies.

Like, getting a power station running was a key plot point in one of the Planet of the Apes flicks.

@chu A not insignificant portion of the world still lives without electricity in their homes..but I understand your point.

@chu Local solar, FTW...🌞

@chu
Anyone who ever saw the UK 70s era tv show Survivors get the gist… even if the cause was, um now surprisingly possible/plausible, not Climate Change/Crisis (it was based on a pandemic).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivors_(1975_TV_series)

@chu Not enough people see the big picture, the interconnectedness of all things in our modern life. If they read a few more post-apocalyptic novels they would know, and know a bit more about how to prepare.

@chu You're right about the fragility of infrastructure, and she's right about the importance of social issues. People who are trying to decide whether to spend their last dollar on food or power today aren't in a position to worry about a possible power outage in the future.

Just as we need to protect the climate in order to protect the people, so we also need to look after the people so they can join us in looking after the climate.

The two issues go hand in hand, and so do their solutions.

@chu I keep trying to explain this but it doesn't seem to come across. 😱😭

@chu In cities it's particularly easy to be ignorant of the scale of infrastructure required to maintain civilization. So much of it is abstracted away, just like how meat often gets abstracted away from animals or the exploitation of children to make chocolate. Tough but worthwhile challenge to tackle!

@chu Given the infrastructure occasionally fails now WITH people looking after it.

@chu

People in California are advised to "prepare for the big one" (earthquake.) Then a moderate one happens and people only THEN rush to the store to get candles and batteries.

People should ask themselves: what do I do when there's no power?

But better, people should try PRETENDING there's no power. Do it on some Saturday or Sunday: turn off the mains. Now try to live. Kind of boring, isn't it? What works? Books and candles.

Then people will better understand - how necessary infrastructure is.

@chu My MAGA b-i-l and his wife have finally grudgingly conceded that climate change is real, but their concept of its effect on them is that this year the leaves didn't fall till Dec and their lawn-care company had already gone on winter hiatus and it was a huge nuisance.

@chu huh. Does the person know where the water run their taps comes from?

@chu Most of us in the West have had a relatively easy time since the late 1940s and we've been lulled into a totally false sense of security. I anticipate that something will go drastically wrong globally within the next decade or so, and certainly by 2050.

Thus I see no point in young people paying into a pension. They should enjoy as best they can, the twilight days of what we rather ironically call civilisation.

@chu see for example https://publikationen.bibliothek.kit.edu/1000103292/122337755

(via https://www.tab-beim-bundestag.de/projekte_blackout-gefaehrdung-und-verletzbarkeit-moderner-gesellschaften-am-beispiel-stromausfall.php)

@chu

They won't be worried until ATMs, wifi and cellphones quit working, then they will run in circles screaming :

OMG! OMG! OMG! The world is ending! I can't get the ballgames!

@chu With vehicles all going electric, city people will be stuck in the cities, fighting over dwindling food supplies - most of which will quickly be inedible.

@chu Can't help but seeing a thread of people feeling very satisfied about knowing some stuff that other people don't.

Lighting INTER-INDIVIDUAL fires not very constructive to our COLLECTIVE struggle.

#solidaritynow

@chu

No, that isn't why, I live in hurricane country where people are VERY aware that electricity is one of the first things to go since we routinely have outages of over a week or more & we all see the trucks that have to come in from all over the country to get it back up

People "don't seem worried" for the simple reason that there is no point in worrying about things beyond your control that are going to happen whether you worry or not

@chu
Everyone Daydreams About Collapse. Few Understand It.
Jessica Wildfire
https://www.okdoomer.io/everyone-fantasizes-about-collapse-but-nobody-plans-for-it/
@breadandcircuses

@chu Taxes are a similar issue. People will fight climate change as long as their taxes don't go up. Taxes going up as a result of no fighting climate change is ok.

@chu @alcinnz

Once I had to explain to a kid in a second year university course that no one is making any more petrol. He did not know about non-renewable resources 😭

@chu
Very interesting insight.

I seem to be having a parallel discussion about capitalism, making the point that after #ClimateCollapse, capitalism will become irrelevant, as it will no longer be possible to base a society on the production of goods and their sale.

I have had a variety of responses, mostly incredulous. Someone said 'you don't understand what capitalism is' (to which I was very tempted to reply 'are you sure you have taken in the effects of #ClimateCollapse on daily living?)

@chu being able to grow food at industrial scale with constantly shifting weather patterns, fires, floods and droughts is a bigger problem .. billions would starve to death & that would cause a collapse in the first place

@chu "I am here to tell you that none of those other issues will even exist in the face of climate and social collapse. "

I was with you until here. Climate and social collapse will continue to have a greater impact on marginalized groups and people. #ClimateJustice

@chu It's also funny when people think we're going to have gasoline, like it isn't just going to turn into water in a few months

@chu Sigh. Yeah. Lack of critical science, geography, history education. Extreme privilege of never actually fixing anything.

@chu

Your thoughts were enlightening, we just have to sometimes think differently, thanks for sharing.

@chu

Sucks when slapped with the realization of how blissfully unaware of reality is the average person going through life without thought for anything outside of their tiny bubble... Complacency.

This is how we've gotten to the point in worldwide society where we are.

For most folks, daily life is it.

No room to consider Big Picture World except in small doses and comments of "Oh, that's not good".

Would that it could be different but I fear majority of ~8B people just can't be arsed.

@chu My PhD research is in climate change and conflict. To this point.

@chu
I, too, have assumed all the dystopian stories have educated people about this stuff. Apparently not.

@chu
She needs to read Into the Forest by Jean Hegland. Read it years ago, and couldn’t fathom what would cause society to collapse like it did in the book. Not hard to imagine now unfortunately ☹️

@chu

As far as I can deduce, and ignoring the refugee crisis, not one country in the world has planned for internal displacement of its people as its coastal regions are flooded due to climate change 😳

@chu Thank you for sharing the story. #ClimateCrisis, #ClimateCollapse. It’s time for practice power outages, like a tornado warning for a 24 hour outage. Keep sharing the chapters of the story.

@chu
People think water comes from a tap. They don't see infrastructure until it doesn't work. It's like they don't want to pay for public education, but they expect all the services that require education to continue without interruption.

@chu the problem with this whole situation is thar ordinary humans feel helpless to effect change. At least in Malaysia, our politicians are too busy fighting each other and stirring racist shit to care about the possibility of climate change, and ordinary people struggle to just feed themselves. I am kinda resigned to the fact that in the future we will just be slammed without warning and it will be sink and swim.

@chu also, this may be unpopular to say this but it seems as if the one of the few countries trying to address this on a local level is, ironically China. They are one the world's largest innovators of green energy. Unfortunately most of the world is distracted by silly wars over oil and other such matters

@chu Every day I speak with people from all over the country. This story doesn't surprise me. The average cognitive ability and reasoning skill of folks I talk to have declined noticeably since the Covid shutdown. Grown men and women, not just a few but many of them, are utterly defeated by frighteningly simple concepts I would once have assumed a child could understand. There's no way they possess the brain power to connect the dots and arrive at this realization.

@chu

This is one way socioeconomic and political crisis can look:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_in_Venezuela

@chu Not only will things stop, they will stop abruptly in most places. People fleeing from cities will end up happening and you'll end up with a populace afoot trying to survive.

@chu
I bet she won’t like the part about “no food”, either.

@chu easy starter pack of climate change

Drought/flood->Less food->Famine->civil war->refugee crisis.

Then add disease, property gone, etc.

@chu Amer. society has become SELFISH and INCREDIBLY SELF CENTERED , stupid and arrogant. And WHY is this country STILL dealing with racism ?!! If good Americans don’t get off of what’s become, their incredibly fat asses and VOTE BLUE in 2024 !! …… We’re done. 🇺🇸💔🥀

@chu why did we make all those people?

@chu feels like a scene from Idiocracy (2006); people lost the ability to think of possible consequences of actions or inaction.

@chu This is why I wrote '470'. I needed, even for myself, to imagine it as a story, in concrete details rather than abstract probabilities. Even me, and I know the science well. But I realised I wasn't living my day to day life "as if" what I knew to be true was true, and not because of any disputing facts, but because of a failure to imagine. Novelists, artists, storytellers have a big role we need to play.

@chu bad news for people whose identity requires a lifelong supply of artificial hormones...

@chu This makes me want to cry. I encounter the same blank confusion from smart people in my life and I have to continually remind myself they're not ass holes, they've just somehow avoided understanding what's going to happen, and I don't know how or why.

@chu I really dislike people with the "let's tear it all down and rebuild it" stance.

@chu it's not "only" electricity. Food will be the first thing to go, closely followed by pharmaceuticals. We'll get a few years of spotty service out of the infrastructure before everything breaks down but oh boy will we miss food & medicine.

I think most people have no idea about the complexity of the systems around us and will be *very* surprised when they get pummelled by the 'find out' phase after fucking around.

@chu Now you know how AI safety folks feel. For a decade they’re trying to convince there’s a risk people who not just don’t know but can not even imagine anything more intelligent than themselves.

And this most likely goes for all sorts of other issues.

@chu Shouldn't the numerous dystopian TV series and movies serve as a warning? I don't generally watch them because I know when chaos descends everything goes to pre-tech times and anarchy. That means no electricity, water, and oh, Internet.

@chu basically you lose society if society collapses. It will be mayhem.

@chu The lost of water supply will make life even harder. Water, food, electricity, imagine a life without those …

@chu Last three lessons to Y9 have been on climate change. I’m astonished that (a) we don’t have a 12-lesson unit on this topic, and (b) they just do not seem to get the seriousness - or care. “Well people who are displaced from their homes won’t come to our town.” (We have Ukrainians in our school.) You have to go so deep, but also basic with the consequences. I found success with repeating the question: “and what will happen then?” Thank you for teaching the grown-ups.

@chu @cripamphibie we’ll have global war much before the shortage of electricity in the west…