@Natanox Dangit, this is so upsetting. I was going to get a Pi 400 for my nieces' 10th birthday but looks like I'll be getting them an Orange Pi instead.

One of the strengths of the Raspberry Pi 400 is the extremely kid-friendly manual that it comes with. Do you know of any similar resources I could get them instead? I don't want to just dump an undocumented Linux device on them; their parents wouldn't know the first thing about getting them started.

@Natanox thanks for the list!

@Natanox I have tried a variety of the lower-end Orange Pi devices (One, Lite, Zero) and so far I've been pleased with them overall. Some things were a little rougher than on RPi but not that much different in the end.

@Natanox
Sources, btw, if anyone is interested.
https://raspberrypi.social/@Raspberry_Pi/109476972427437410

https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/meet-raspberry-pis-maker-in-residence-toby-roberts/

https://www.sony.co.uk/presscentre/news/raspberry-pi-receives-strategic-investment-from-sony-semiconductor-solutions-corporation

@Natanox I used some early designs of friendlyelec. Not extremely reliable, but they improved a lot since then.

@Natanox jesus pissing christ, yeah fuck that garbage lmfao

my rock64 has been serving me well, gonna use pine64 from now on, though i might look into the other ones as well

@Natanox i dont actually know anything about them but mangopi has a pink sbc https://mangopi.org/

@Natanox Anecdotal evidence but I just shared this information to a group of techies I work with/around and they confirmed that both BeagleBoards and BananaPi were solid boards.

One said that Pine64 *was* good, but he hasn't seen their latest offerings yet.

Great information, thank you!

@Natanox genuine q: how much do we know about the firm's behind these alternatives?

For example, Banana Pi seems very close to Foxconn..

@Natanox Amazon sell a knock-off Pi, same price, a drop in replacement. Not sure how else to get it other than Amazon. Search "Libre computer project" "le potato"

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Libre-Computer-AML-S905X-CC-Potato-64-bit/dp/B074P6BNGZ/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=E7EG3N01RA3S&keywords=le+potato+computer&qid=1681840057&sprefix=%22le+potato%22+%2Caps%2C348&sr=8-3

@Natanox Also they bundle Microsoft VSCode into their default education software suite. They clearly support the same brand of "anti-user practices are ok as long as technically the source is open" practices as MS and Google.

@Natanox ouch. This really hurts, @jbaert ...

@Natanox Thx. Sad.

@Natanox, no love for https://www.olimex.com/ ?

@Natanox Reminds me on the famous #DarkKnight quote: "Either you die as a hero or you live long enough to become the villain."

@Natanox while I'm going to google this, do you have any sources about the cop and metadata beacons?

@Natanox I don't think that marketing point is referring to Sony's cloud services. It's saying that edge AI allows a company to develop a solution that only sends metadata to *its* cloud services, because the AI can be run on the device. Like, a smart baby monitor that sends a cloud notification when your baby poops, as opposed to a smart baby monitor that sends 24/7 video to the cloud so it can tell you when your baby poops.

@Natanox nevermind. found it.

@Natanox

how is it implemented?

details like that are key plus AI enabled versions of kit is being touted on at least 2 of those alternatives listed

@Natanox Welp. I was getting tired of their boards being completely unavailable *everywhere* and being severely underpowered besides, so this is yet another reason to not give them money. Thank you for the info.

@Natanox Wheres the proof that the Sony AI engine sends anything to the cloud?

@Natanox

Pine64 means well, but their track record has left much to be desired.
Their "ship encased hardware, hope the community rallies together to create software that actually turns the thing into a product" strategy was somewhat understandable in the beginning, now it's just an unreasonable cost cutting measure.

Hardkernel seems to be the best of the bunch so far in terms of overall ecosystem satisfaction (hardware+software+community).

@Natanox Do you have a link to this chip being in the next Pi, please? I see it as an add-on module for the RPI4.

@Natanox I can recommend the hardkernel Odroid, it's been running without issue for months now!

@Natanox what annoys me is that this choice is so large it's hard to get an idea what I want or need. The huge advantage of the rPi is that it's really an allrounder with a decent mix of power, consumption and extendability. Which of the alternatives best compares to this?

@Natanox (sigh) this makes me so sad. The Raspberry Pi was my kid's first computer - it REALLY WAS living up to the founding ideals for us. But it's just become so irrelevant over the past few years and then this is the straw on the camel's back.

@Natanox Do you still have the link handy for the Sony deal? None of the articles I’ve found on it say they’re integrating Sony's AI platform into the OS, just that it’s going to be better-supported.

@Natanox what on earth are the folks at RPi thinking?

@Natanox +1 for hardkernel's odroid line of small ARM systems. I switched after using a pair of the (now ancient) Pi model B for a storage network. I've used the U2, C2, and N2. Recommend the N2 highly.

The odroid community is smaller, I guess, but they have been very helpful.

@Natanox the cops thing really reminded me of the Blizzcon Diablo announcement. Really seemed largely out of touch with their userbase. This latest re: Sony just confirms it for me.

@Natanox don’t forget the power of combining the task of multiple Pi’s into a single computer running docker. Slowly moving away from single board computers for little Intel NUCs doing multiple tasks.

@Natanox silly Q: does this affect the RPis that are already running?

@Natanox YAY for alternatives at least existing and that a decent bit of these are actually better products then the dreadful old #raspberrypi
personally like #orangepi and #pine64 the most

@Natanox did not know about #OrangePi. That has 8GB+ ram. Something I was missing from #RaspberryPi since #Nextcloud and #Mastodon seem to be a bit to much for my 4GB.
Thanks for sharing this!

@Natanox Any suggestions on where to get these in the UK?

@Natanox @stux I use a FriendlyElec NanoPi for my wired router with OpenWRT for quite a while and have been happy with it. Recently upgraded from their R2S to the R5C.

@Natanox some days it feels like turning an itch into product *inevitably* leads to enshittification, it's just a question of how long it takes

@Natanox As much as I'd consider alternatives to @Raspberry_Pi since their stuff is being scalped beyond insane, a lot of those suffer from poor software support, worse availability and even higher prices.

That being said I do use a #BananaPiZeroM2 / #BPi0M2 since the #Pi0/#Pi0W is being scalped >10x it's #MSRP and I've yet to find a good #CM4 / #Pi4B replacement that isn't out of production, double the price or unsupported by even @ubuntu or #Debian...

@Natanox@chaos.social I have a RaspberryPi 4B purchased for a project a few years ago. But, if I was going to buy any similar product today, there are so many superior options vs. RaspberryPi.

@Natanox @starbaseposts

Cc @rabbithearth

@Natanox Do any of the alternatives offer a microcontroller for under $5 USD?

@Natanox WTF? Sony? 😞

@Natanox What the actual flying fuck?

@Natanox I can understand the thought process that lead to this...

And I absolutely unequivocably disagree with it on a deep level.

@Natanox
Anyone got a source for the metadata-thing? I couldn't find anything about that.

@Natanox Sure you want the Orange Pi and Banana Pi boards in that list?

You're swapping the Raspberry Pi board for something arguably worse, as both are Chinese boards, and I'm not particularly fond of supporting fascist countries.

@Natanox I've been having fun with #micropython on #esp32.

@Natanox

libre.computer also makes a good alternative to Raspberry Pi. I've used their Le Potato. The pcb is white instead of traditional green.

@Natanox oh fer Seldon's sake. SONY? AI? OVERT SNOOP?!

Dust off and nuke'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

@Natanox this is truly news that matters to nerds. Guess I will be broadening my sbc horizons.

@Natanox I recall the beaglebone had long been the preferred choice of the freedombone project. @bob and even the freedombox people already gad stopped supporting the rpi because of its use of non-free firmware https://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox/Hardware

@Natanox I really don't understand the problem with this Sony deal. As far as I can tell, it involves Sony making some software for Raspberry Pis (sounds like it'll show up for 4B models). If you don't like the software, then don't use it. I haven't seen anything to suggest that it'll be unavoidable, especially since Raspberry Pis can run a number of Linux distributions not under the control of the Raspberry Pi foundation. Of course, running one of those makes it easier to use a competing board.

@Natanox wow, those hardkernel prices are tempting, Geez!

@Natanox Ugh, that's too bad... I was a long time fan of their company until now.

@Natanox oooo Banana Pi has a /router board/

color me interested!

@Natanox :yikes:

@Natanox Who cares? Instead of spreading FUD, you should post something with substance by showing us what they've actually done that was detrimental to the platform.

@Natanox I kinda gave up on them after the whole "we have stock for companies, but makers who are our core target audience can go buy from scalpers lol" situation they had going on for a while. Not sure if it got any better.

@Natanox I've got 2 OrangePis.

@Natanox I did not see that the AI thing sent anything to the cloud. I was concerned about scope creep with integrating it by default, but that... that's a real problem. Even if it's "just" metadata, that's a problem. I remember training as a USMC intelligence analyst, one of our instructors laid out a scary amount of information someone could gather from things like how many MRE wrappers they find in areas you were at.

@Natanox before sprinting into the bramble-patch of far-worse software support (lots of missing or buggy driver support) on all those Raspberry Pi alternatives, maybe just calm down a little and watch this deeply-sane video where the software support on some of the current, somewhat realistic RPi 4 competitors are reviewed for their current state of Operating System/software maturity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8clrUclPIs

@Natanox I didn’t think they made them anymore?

@Natanox

First one who helps #illumos bringup aarm64 I'll buy from.

@Natanox I didn't know there was a time when Raspberry Pi Foundation was non-shitty.

@Natanox source on the AI thing? All I can find on that it allows ai applications of the pi to only send metadata to the cloud, not that the pi does it itself

@Natanox one of the things that makes the pi ecosystem so functional is that there are tons of OS options, and they're usually updated. Anyone have any suggestions for building Linux installs for other devices? I got kinda solidly stuck when trying to figure out how to build and load Linux for a non-RPi SBC a few months back, and I'd still love to know how to do it.

@Natanox whoa mang, what did I miss?!?

@Natanox I checked the news and the link that @sbb posted. I can’t find anything related to “only sends metadata to the cloud”. Can you clarify where you got this from?

@Natanox Earlier they tried to make installing vscode easier for all users by adding vscode repo to sources.list.d by default. It would have made most raspis to contact Microsoft about once per day. Users on their forum protested and the addition was reverted .

@Natanox

For alternatives to the #Pico, I recommend #Espressif.

#Rust is a first order feature for Espressif.

@Natanox Do you (or anyone else) know any place where one can get an overview of these hundreds of SBCs?

Looking for an alternative to the rpi zero 2 w. Which, besides controversy, seem to be forever out of stock.

@Natanox Just waiting for the Raspberry Pi social media intern to show up and further embarrass the brand.

@Natanox But how can we keep you safe if you won't let us violate your constitutional rights? We know what's good for you better than you do. Trust us. We'd never do anything to hurt you.
- The Government

@Natanox This is why we can't have nice things.

It pisses me off to no end - particularly because this exact kind of sh*t is why I now go into any & all scale tech products with negative trust.

Sure, you *say* you're going to be secure / private / responsible / whatever, but how am I supposed to believe that any of that will still be even remotely true the day somebody offers you a bag with a dollar sign on the side...?

@Natanox @glynmoody afaik, Beagleboard still doing non-dodgy stuff.

@Natanox and @olimex https://olimex.com boards are great and open hardware too !! ;)

@Natanox I've had bad experiences with #bananapi in the past re. upstream kernel support and closed source drivers.

My boards are a fair bit older, but there is just no way to just install a recent version of a Linux on it without it being a very fiddly, painful process because the only really supported kernel is now ages old. For all intends and purposes, their boards have turned into paper weights and turned me of the brand entirely.

I haven't followed then closer so this may have changed.

@Natanox

#CopBerry Pi

@Natanox I can honestly say I've never owned or used a Raspberry Pi. From the outset, the use of a closed Broadcom SoC switched me off and this latest Sony AI inclusion does nothing to make me ever consider it.

I've successfully used ODROID HC1 and NanoPi NEO3 devices which, in their own way, are superior to the Raspberry Pi. As you said, there are many useful alternatives out there.

@Natanox It's so disappointing to see the Pi foundation go this way. I'm glad there are alternatives, but you'd think an organization would have a bit more sense.

@Natanox@chaos.social AI engine: oh neat
Sends random shit to the cloud: bring out the pitchforks

@Natanox Pi already fell off when they started prioritizing commercial businesses over laypeople consumers despite their mission statement. I just wanted ANY compact SBC that could run Linux with working drivers. Pi Zero 2 would have done the trick but now I'm looking for something else.

@Natanox wasn't Malaysia, the place were all Pine64 boards come from one of the worst places for LGBTQ+ people? Or am I confusing countries?

EDIT: I answered myself.

@Natanox NOOOO

@Natanox
there's also khadas.com, vim boards are really good to play with

@Natanox
For many use cases, it’s worth to take a look at Italian Arduino, both the PRO and the education line.

@Natanox I know https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/ runs off an A20-OLinuXino-LIME2 which looks as though its a fine alternative to a Pi for certain applications.

@Natanox @Raspberry_Pi is this true?

@Natanox Even more funny how they started blocking people and talking back not knowing that it would just cause people to defed from their nonsense.

Oh what it is to be a social media manager on a new platform. 😂​

Thanks for the list, I actually wanted to look into some alternatives for some projects.

@Natanox Oh I didnt know.

@Natanox Good to know. Blocked the company server. Looks like I got two Pis here to wipe and donate to a library for 3D Printer control computer backups.

Won't spend on those clowns again. Not that they'll care, the companies lapping them up and scalpers make them the Ticketmaster of IoT now. The foundation part of their name is a joke.