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Top-level
 @Natanox Dangit, this is so upsetting. I was going to get a Pi 400 for my nieces' 10th birthday but looks like I'll be getting them an Orange Pi instead. One of the strengths of the Raspberry Pi 400 is the extremely kid-friendly manual that it comes with. Do you know of any similar resources I could get them instead? I don't want to just dump an undocumented Linux device on them; their parents wouldn't know the first thing about getting them started. 36 comments
 @bonkers @fluffy @Natanox I'm here to second this! I met a Microbit teacher that goes around primary schools last year and he shown me some of the projects and how the schools found it, it was a now-rare bit of tech excitement for me seeing all this cool stuff that smol children were not only getting to grips with but fully enjoying!  @Shrigglepuss @fluffy @Natanox better take at least two microbits. They can communicate via radio.  @Shrigglepuss @bonkers Just in case Microbit isn't what @fluffy was looking for: honestly, if it's just one device and that you can't find elsewhere and it's for a good cause, don't feel bad to buy from them once. We're not those who make the rules, avoiding questionable or even outright bad actors isn't always possible. @Natanox @Shrigglepuss @fluffy if the kid has no prior programming experience, RPi will be an overkill that will also be difficult to use. Microbit is designed for kids specifically. You just connect it and start coding in scratch, JavaScript or python, straight from the browser. Also, a ton of third party add-ons, like robot cars or servos. @bonkers @Natanox @Shrigglepuss There's two of them. Also I wouldn't be there to physically help them out - for me the included documentation is more important than the hardware itself. Also they're interested in learning game programming, not hardware development. So Microbit doesn't really seem like a suitable replacement, although it might still be a fun thing for them to try out. @bonkers @Natanox @Shrigglepuss Also right now the computers they have access to are Chromebooks, so their choices for actual dev environments are minimal. I mean, okay, they *could* install Linux on them, but keep in mind that they're 10 years old and their parents are not extremely tech-savvy. I also live around 1500 miles away and my sister doesn't want me giving them something I can't help with remotely. @fluffy @Natanox @Shrigglepuss sounds like a couple of microbits is actually the right thing for them. Computers like RPi will be a huge overkill. Save that for when they're 14 and have actual programming experience. @bonkers @Natanox @Shrigglepuss Also does it come with the materials they need to learn how to do it themselves? I cannot overstate how important that is. @fluffy @Natanox @Shrigglepuss the ones I got didn't have any printed material. But the website is very informative. Also there are expensive kits with printed manuals, if needed.  @fluffy @bonkers @Natanox @Shrigglepuss I first installed linux on a windows 3.1 computer when I was 10, with online documentation. I had already been doing tech support for my parents for years at that point. At 16 I was running the linux lab for my high school. 10-12 year old kids can do most stuff with computers that adults can, if you let them. Most people don't let them. @sidereal @fluffy @Natanox @Shrigglepuss I let them, but it's difficult to sparkle the interest. @bonkers @sidereal @fluffy @Natanox I would maybe try some roleplay in this situation and make it into a puzzle you want to try and solve and need their support with? I work in consumer IT and these days it's the helping people out that engages me more than the computers. I've mostly come to hate computers, they're just the rut I've got stuck into that I've got good at helping people with haha @Shrigglepuss @fluffy @bonkers @Natanox Yeah while reading this I got all excited, like, it makes me really sad that people relegate children to tablets and stuff these days. I learned so much hacking away at old desktop computers when I was a kid. Hardware and software. Part of why it makes me sad that electronics are less repairable now. I got so much free "outdated" shit from adults that I then repaired myself and did all kinds of cool projects with. @fluffy @Natanox @Shrigglepuss what's the kid's experience in programming and computers? We programmed rock, scissors, paper with my kids on the weekend, and haven't even finished. I mean, it's a long road before game development. Also for games, Minecraft and Roblox allow a lot of programing, and they don't need an RPi. @bonkers @Natanox @Shrigglepuss Yeah, they already have fun in Minecraft. But they're interested in making stuff at a somewhat lower level; one of them specifically is really into Tamagotchi right now. Maybe Microbit would be a good choice for that. But basically I want a device for them that they can more directly work with Scratch and maybe Python, and the RPi400 manual has an amazing Pygame tutorial in it. I'm definitely weighing a lot of options and RPi400 seems like the best one. @fluffy @bonkers @Natanox @Shrigglepuss Agree with @Natanox - buy a 400. Itβs future iterations thatβre problematic and while itβs important to deny business to companies who demonstrate unconscionable conduct, this gives the educational element an additional layer - you can explain why the companyβs problematic and you wont be supporting them again. @oscarjiminy @bonkers @Natanox @Shrigglepuss thanks, Iβll probably get the rpi400 and two microbits for them then (or maybe a fun adafruit kit if they have something to their skill level) @fluffy @oscarjiminy @bonkers @Natanox you could buy secondhand instead, in order to not further support them. This is also educational regarding e-waste and reuse @bonkers @Natanox @Shrigglepuss @fluffy I second using either a Microbit, or a Circuit Playground Express, though neither is a real computer. They're more toys. What we really do need is a modern "toy" computer, that's approachable. The Commander X16 seems like it's in that direction! Another example, if we go full computer, would be a modern XO-1 laptop. @serge @Natanox @Shrigglepuss @fluffy the beauty of microbit design is that it is a fully functional computer, if you throw away the keyboard and display ;) @bonkers @Natanox @Shrigglepuss @fluffy Yes, this is true, you can get a REPL from the microbit. You can also get one from the Circuit Playground Express, The only real advantage I see of the Microbit is the dot matrix display. Other than that, honestly, I prefer the CPE. @serge @Natanox @Shrigglepuss @fluffy peripherals and third party integration. Microbit has tons of different add-on hardware. Just search through AliExpress or Amazon. @bonkers @Natanox @Shrigglepuss @fluffy Fair enough. I like the CPE because it's made by Adafruit, and I really like and try to support Adafruit. @Shrigglepuss @bonkers @fluffy @Natanox You might be interested in a small project I set up: https://petergarner.net/notes.php?thisnote=20220502-BBC+micro%3Abit+as+a+Wireless+MQTT+Client.html @fluffy @Natanox i don't know about the documentation but this looks like a decent alternative: http://www.orangepi.org/html/hardWare/computerAndMicrocontrollers/details/orange-pi-800.html @reese @Natanox Yeah, I had mentioned the Orange Pi as a substitute and I specifically meant the 800. The thing is that while the hardware is equivalent and probably totally fine, where the Raspberry Pi 400 really shines is it comes with an *amazing* manual that teaches Linux, game development, and hardware in a kid-friendly way. @fluffy If you don't want to give #RaspberryPi any money but still want to get a Raspberry Pi 400, there's always the option of buying used. Of course that's always a gamble on quality.  @fluffy @Natanox orange pi 800 is a bit more friendly than the 400, the 400 requires microhdmi and has no other way to get sound out of it. OrangePi800 has speakers, a headphone jack, and full size hdmi. |
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@fluffy @Natanox have a look at Microbit.org -- it's the awesomest platform for kids education.