 I'm nearing a year of using this Linux laptop as a 50% daily driver and I really have to say… Linux's quality of life on an ordinary laptop is *embarrassing*. Like, I'm able to use it. But it is embarrassing. No normal person would put up with the garbage desktop Linux puts me through. I put up with it because I'm stubborn and ideologically motivated. 238 comments
- Firefox can't show image previews when selecting attachments (because of "security", somehow) - Often, when I direct a program to open a new window, GNOME refuses to let the program do it, and instead opens the window at the back of the stack and shows a top-of-screen notification letting me know there's a new window (I guess also "security") - Just fresh weird stuff happening at random intervals. Since last week, when I right click in Firefox, I can't click on the menu. It's happening RN I can use even a very poorly functioning OS because the OS, to me, is just a thin support system that allows a web browser to run. Linux is not succeeding well at this very minimal goal. Note: I assume that I will get responses to these posts (okay, I was GOING to say that, but I have got two such responses so far, I didn't even get to finish typing the thread) saying I wouldn't have problems if I didn't use Ubuntu. *I don't believe you!* Using a different distro means yanking an arm on a slot machine. MAYBE I get a functioning system. MAYBE it gets worse! And the cost of *trying* is a few days of intensive work and maybe screwing up my daily-use computer.   @mcc only one of those issues is a ubuntu problem anyway. then there's a few wayland ones, and i guess the last one is just firefox being broken. it's certainly a game of choose your broken, or perhaps roll the dice and have the broken chosen for you. @mcc the "popups opening in the background" is an xwayland issue, unless there's a specific bonus problem with your configuration, hurray for a rare dice roll. the firefox attachment one is because you're using snap indeed (which is arguably a ubuntu thing because snap is ubuntu only madness).  @mcc Heh, I was going to say "try Ubuntu, it's worked pretty seemlessly on my laptop". the struggle is real though Someday Cosmic DE will get released, and I will switch to Pop!_OS, and then all the problems on my laptop will be because Cosmic DE is an unfinished product rather than because GNOME is a finished product which made design decisions I disagree with, and I will be Happy because the problems with my laptop will be happening for the correct reasons  @mcc I have never once heard the advice to switch distros come from somebody who wanted to make any effort whatsoever to understand and solve a problem, only from people who want to say they don't have your problem. I have had success forcibly disabling touchscreens by adding the appropriate module - "usbtouchscreen" I think? to /etc/modules.d/blacklist, but you're I think right to consider this an indignity.   @mcc@mastodon.social Yeah, my experience is that changing distros can fix some problems while introducing new ones. Like I went from Debian to Ubuntu and it improved hardware support while causing a number of other issues.  @mcc Depressed chuckle at the replies suggesting things that are far beyond the scope of "thin support system that allows a web browser to run." Me: "my streetcar keeps getting caught in traffic due to city policies" Some Linux fans: "Oh I've seen that before, don't worry, just repave the street in a new shape and you'll be all set."   @saddestrobots Thanks, I'll look into it. There was a plugin that ameliorated the "touchscreen mode" issue by permanently killing the GNOME on-screen keyboard, but then I upgraded and it stopped working. Lol. *sad trombone* Every tutorial that includes "just run 'apt upgrade' " infuriates me. No! I need to fix this one specific issue. Not spend the next 8+ hours figuring out which package upgrades broke my dependency stack and downgrading packages by trial and error.  @mcc@mastodon.social  @mcc it took me forever to understand why, when I accidentally pressed CTRL-O instead of ALT-O in VS Code, I got a random popup that said that the application was ready and then it became completely unresponsive. Turns out it was showing the "open file" dialog *behind* the window, but still somehow making it modal. Because Wayland? I dunno. Now I at least know how to fix it without having to close and restart Code, but it was driving me absolutely nuts for a while. @chiamamialmort The problem with my Big Issue (sleep/wake) appears to be a range of Linux kernels in the neighborhood of https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/ca299b4512d4b4f516732a48ce9aa19d91f4473e . If whatever non-ubuntu distro I switch to has a kernel based on this range, it will not resolve the problem. It is also unclear to me whether torvalds commit ca299b45 fixes the problem fully. @chiamamialmort @mcc at least some of that is hardware support. The laptop is built for windows. I don't understand the Firefox problems, tho. Probably can be configured differently. @nicholas_saunders @chiamamialmort It's a fucking ThinkPad! It lists Ubuntu as a supported operating system on the manufacturer website! I literally bought it because it was the line people mostly said was good for running Linux  @mcc Honestly, I so quickly got used to closing the lid fucking up the system, that I just never do it until I power down the system, and I'm astonished when I see other people close the lids on running laptops. Also I fucking hate touchscreens on laptops. @mcc I had the onscreen keyboard issue and switching the login from Ubuntu to Ubuntu on Wayland seemed to help a little bit. I agree though, linux on a laptop is hell. At this point, after three weeks, I've downloaded the windows iso to restore it. No amount of privacy intrusion is worse than dealing with Gnome Software Center again. @alexhammy Now to be fair, the version of Ubuntu which is satisfied for this thinkpad is 20.04, and I am running 24.04. Naughty me (If I were running 20.04 I *would not* be seeing the problem with sleep/wake; it is specific to newer Linux kernels, so it impacts 23.10 and 24.04 but not 22.04 or older) @mcc I feel this. I had very similar experiences. I'm a techie, understand things like this, and can deal with them. If I tried giving family members a Linux laptop to use, they would be constantly screaming.  @rain It is very funny to me because before I got the laptop I test-drove it on a spare partition on my desktop, and it worked great. Because most of my major issues are due to laptop specific features (touchscreens, hidpi displays, sleep/wake, trackpad [I didn't mention but several of my problems have severe issues with trackpad mousewheel support]) @mcc I am ideologically motivated to use Linux but (as a macOS user with a HiDPI screen) always nope out as soon as I see screenshots of how fonts get rendered. What distro are you using? What kinds of problems are you seeing? Do not whine. You can make it wotk. You probably are missing a couple of configuration things that you have not learned about yet. @mcc I NEED this on a sticker with a Debian logo 🍥 I'm stubborn and ideologically motivated  @mcc@mastodon.social I'm sorry you've had that experience. Not every Linux Distro is a winner for everyone.  @mcc Well, guess I'll wait another year before getting rid of Windows on my astronomy laptops.  @mcc Well this thread worries me as I was planning on Ubuntu of some sort or other when I give up on Win10.  @mcc I feel the need to apologize for all the "you're not trying hard enough" / "use a different distro" / "use a different laptop" replies. The firefox thing might be a snap issue. Snap/firefox will refuse to do a lot of things for "security". (Among other things, it will refuse to serve files if there's a hidden folder anywhere in the path to that file, or if the file itself is a dotfile). @mcc I have a Dell, supplied with Ubuntu installed. It's the most reliable machine I've ever used. It does more updates of firmware than I've known. If you self-installed, do you get them?  @mcc What brand of laptop? I think that can make a big difference for things like wake/sleep. I think most manufacturers put a lot of effort into support for windows. Also others have already said it but I'll second it: try fedora? I am using fedora with KDE on my laptop and the only issue so far is it is locked to the maximum screen resolution and not using the proper screen refresh rate, which is not a big deal for me.  @mcc obligatory: It's all Ubuntu's fault 🫣 In all seriousness, in my opinion most "easy" distros make too many wrong assumptions about your system, your configuration and your goals and habits. I have zero issues with sleep/wake/lid stuff and the ThinkPad Dock works more reliable with my Framework 13 on Linux than with the ThinkPad it came with on Windows 11 (it has the exact problem of just not waking up from sleep correctly...). *But* I generally think Windows has that stuff figured out. @mcc I think I stopped using Linux on desktop when I got my first laptop. As a pre 1.0 kernel consumer, ndiswrapper was the straw that broke my back.  If it has a touchscreen it's not really an ordinary laptop. Just sayin. I have a non ordinary laptop, it's got touchscreen and flips around to tablet mode - I'm finding Ubuntu Studio, which runs KDE, works almost well enough, certainly no weird behavior like that anyways. Windows had smarts about when I was typing, such the the touchpad ignored me, which Linux doesn't seem to do. It also can only set scale globally, which wreaks havoc with my 1440p monitor. @mcc I feel this on an almost spiritual level. I admin linux-on-the-desktop for the company I work for, and roughly half the install scripts and puppet config we deploy are basic quality of life fixes, not anything we actually strictly need for corporate control. The year of the Linux desktop may be approaching, but it's only because Microsoft has decided to leap it's usability off cliff, rather than Linux arising to defeat it. @mcc I'm sure there will be a certain amount of 'you are doing it wrong' replies. But your observation is exactly why I don't use linux as a administrative laptop for daily tasks.  @mcc Try putting up with the Windows experience, as someone accustomed to a sane but quirky environment like a unix/linux distro. You prefer Windows, keep it. @mcc I would love to try it on my 2 in 1 but it doesn’t disengage the trackpad and keyboard until the screen is folded all the way around. Any less and it doesn’t notice, so I can’t prop the screen up. Sucks as Fedora runs really nicely on it :( @mcc me, a stubborn person, recognises all of your struggles, and I'm there with you.I even know solutions to some of them. But every couple of days my pixel buds randomly choose to unpair from bluetooth and it takes me extra 2 mins to join a work call. Why? Nobody knows 🙃 least of them me, who's been at this issue for a year. I preserve for other reasons and usability ain't one of them.  @mcc I had the laptop lid problem with my dell laptop when i first got it ...it was only a miracle that it got fixed somehow (maybe bios update that i did on it ? don't even know?) but it was the worst experience while it happened it scares me to click links like bug #2064595 (lol at the huge number) and think that things like that are still lurking @mcc I think that's a fair assessment. Linux power management isn't great. At the same time, Windows has gotten bad enough lately that I don't even need ideological reasons to choose Linux anymore. If it's a choice between putting up with Canonical breaking Firefox by turning it into a snap without permission, or Microsoft making my machine unbootable by installing a bad update without permission, I know which nuisance I'd rather deal with @mcc I wound up going Kubuntu due to the interface oddities in Gnome. There were some window interactions I expected from Windows that didn't work right in Gnome. Dragging in/out of a compressed file, hitting a letter in the file explorer to go to that place in the sort (I'll click in search of I want to search). @mcc @SwiftOnSecurity That said, they were the most fulfilling and satisfying years of my entire computer usage.  @mcc I feel this hard, i wrote this silly thing https://levlaz.org/an-ode-to-linux-desktop-users-everywhere/ in 2016 and coming back to linux on laptop recently it feels like not much has changed. At this point I wonder how much of me going through the pain is a part of the appeal? @mcc Like the Architect in the Matrix, “There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept” @mcc All I can offer is that Ubuntu has been suffering from general enshittification over the last maybe 10 years, and sharply in the last 3 LTS releases. I've been running LTS Ubuntu releases on Thinkpads for 15+ years and on my desktops for at least that long, possibly longer. Before that was Suse and Gentoo, so I've seen some things, man. Good hardware helps, but caretaking of core packages and overall bloat keeps getting worse. Mint and other derivatives just have different problems.  @mcc Maybe it's because I haven't used a Mac in twenty years, but I have no trouble using a laptop with Ubuntu+Gnome. Personally I despise Gnome. I use KDE from Kubuntu on my laptop (A Dell Inspiron 3580). It's my system for all personal use except for playing and developing games, which I do on a desktop with Windows 10. (I used to do my gaming on Kubuntu as well, since Steam now has excellent support for running Windows games on Linux.) I wish I could suggest something that would make you say "WOW this will fix all my problems" but ultimately it's a matter of personal preferences. Good luck! @mcc Same. If I were not ideologically motivated, I’d laugh at the suggestion of using a Linux GUI for anything outside of some small niches. |
Gregory's Server
I see problems including, but not limited to
- When I close the laptop lid and open it again, a shocking percentage of the time it does not wake up and I have to force power it off ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-oem-6.8/+bug/2064595 , ongoing since April)
- Every time I briefly brush my fingers against the screen, GNOME enters an entirely broken "touchscreen mode" in which it pretends my keyboard and mouse don't exist. It fixes itself after an unpredictable amount of time ranging from 5 to 30 seconds. Can't be disabled
I see problems including, but not limited to
- When I close the laptop lid and open it again, a shocking percentage of the time it does not wake up and I have to force power it off ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-oem-6.8/+bug/2064595 , ongoing since April)
- Every time I briefly brush my fingers against the screen, GNOME enters an entirely broken "touchscreen mode" in which it pretends my keyboard and mouse don't exist. It fixes itself after an unpredictable amount of time ranging...