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Chris Trottier

Microsoft Azure's @medium page just published this guide on how to deploy Mastodon on Azure.

medium.com/microsoftazure/simp

Now the fellow who wrote this doesn't directly work for Microsoft.

But clearly, Microsoft wants to use Mastodon to sell Azure. Otherwise they wouldn't publish this article on their official Azure Medium page.

I've been predicting this for months.

In fact, Microsoft has been telegraphing more and more involvement with the Fediverse.

See also: @dotnet

@fediversenews
15 Mar 2023 at 22:57 | Open on mastodon.social
84 comments
Linux in a Bit 🐧
Chris Trottier

You know what's funny about this?

Microsoft is trying to act super casual about their Fediverse plans.

When I bring this up, people (i.e., Microsoft fans) say I'm spreading a conspiracy theory.

But what is the conspiracy theory exactly?

That they're really good at marketing -- specifically to open source communities?

15 Mar 2023 at 23:02 | Open on mastodon.social
Chris Trottier

I knew Microsoft was up to something the moment I saw a whole lot of Microsoft employees suddenly congregate on the Fediverse.

To be fair, they're not the only Big Tech company doing this. There's lots of Apple and Google employees here too.

It's just that Microsoft is more blatant about the direction they want to go with the Fediverse: to sell Github, Azure, and other dev-related services.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:05 | Open on mastodon.social
Mhanch
Chris Trottier

Look, I'll even give Microsoft compliments.

It's nice that so many Microsoft employees actually use the Fediverse, and you can talk to them like real human beings.

This is in contrast to Meta.

Where are the Meta employees? They're not here, and yet those folks plan on building a "decentralized social network" based on ActivityPub. Sounds suspicious.

So there you have it. Microsoft is actually eating their dog food right now.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:09 | Open on mastodon.social
DELETED

@atomicpoet

I welcome MSofties here. Then I can ask them directly: "Why does it take so long after I click?"

15 Mar 2023 at 23:13 | Open on sysad.ninja
Chris Trottier

It's also clear to me why Microsoft is pushing Mastodon on Azure right now: Cloudflare has their offering with Wildebeest.

So why not publish a guide on how to use vanilla Mastodon with Azure?

Seems like an easy win -- especially with all of Wildebeest's missteps.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:18 | Open on mastodon.social
Chris Trottier

I worked for Microsoft's Xbox division for 3 years. Not directly as an employee, but as someone doing customer support.

What Microsoft *really* excels at is building online communities.

They're exceptional at it, in fact.

Microsoft will never just drop in and say, "Here's our Fediverse offering!"

Instead, they'll be exemplary citizens, listen very carefully, and amplify feedback from the community that just so happens to align with their marketing goals.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:29 | Open on mastodon.social
Resting Facebitch
RyunosukeKusanagi

@atomicpoet I think that's part of it, I think part of it also is birdsite is no longer viable for what your thread described, a) as people are leaving the toxic site for more .... stability, and b) Birds (advertisers) flocking together and leaving bitdsite as well.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:32 | Open on mastodon.social
Chris Trottier

Also Microsoft's dominance rarely starts with evil moustache twirlers that want to "embrace, extend, extinguish".

Sometimes that's where it ends up, but that's not usually where it starts.

Usually it starts with rank-and-file Microsoft employees saying, "I want to build the next big thing!"

So they do.

But how do they build it? With Microsoft "integrations".

Then the executives get involved, and they naturally want to monetize...

15 Mar 2023 at 23:37 | Open on mastodon.social
Chris Trottier

Most people who work at Big Tech companies don't wake up in the morning and think to themselves, "How do I wreck the Fediverse?"

Instead, they go, "I want to build something that I genuinely care about -- and I have the financial resources to do it!"

So they do because why not, right?

Where it gets dodgy is when the bean counters start asking, "How do we decrease churn?"

15 Mar 2023 at 23:43 | Open on mastodon.social
Chris Trottier

What I'm getting at here is that there doesn't need to be a grand conspiracy.

There just has to be nerds at Big Tech companies that want to build the "next big thing".

They have financial resources. They have marketing. They have a guy doing analytics who says, "This shift in our UI will increase revenue by a factor of 2X!"

Then you have the guy in accounting rejoice because it worked, and an executive who says, "Next big thing created shareholder value!"

15 Mar 2023 at 23:50 | Open on mastodon.social
Chris Trottier

Anyway, how do we alleviate the danger of Big Tech "building" the Fediverse?

We need to consider alternatives to Big Tech.

Specifically, we should consider crowdfunding or non-profits or co-ops.

Maybe we should make it viable for people to make a living from the Fediverse without having to do it through Microsoft, Apple, or Google.

Just food for thought.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:54 | Open on mastodon.social
Viss
Chris Trottier replied to Viss
Viss replied to Chris

@atomicpoet what youre describing here is pretty similar to some stuff that happens in the show. also, its an exceptionally well done show

16 Mar 2023 at 4:04 | Open on mastodon.social
Lorq Von Ray

@atomicpoet - When you consider that Microsoft is trying to turn Windows into an OS-as-a-Service platform, plus all of their other baggage, plus the rest of the big tech baggage, we shouldn't be inclined to want to affiliate with Microsoft or Meta or Google. But that also means that smaller companies have Have HAVE to resist the lure of big money from Big Tech.
16 Mar 2023 at 0:14 | Open on small.circlez.social
benx

@atomicpoet
Are you familiar with the work being done by @coopcloud and Co-tech coops.tech/

16 Mar 2023 at 0:15 | Open on kolektiva.social
Chris Trottier replied to benx
benx replied to Chris

@atomicpoet
Admittedly I'm not too familiar myself, from what I understand @coopcloud are looking collective build an alternative cloud infrastructure that is run and managed by a network of tech co-ops.

And co-tech is a burgeoning network of tech co-ops.

I hope I've got that right?

16 Mar 2023 at 0:23 | Open on kolektiva.social
Robert Guillam

@atomicpoet hello. Thank you for your threads. They are great explainers btw.

16 Mar 2023 at 0:24 | Open on masto.ai
DELETED

@atomicpoet

You make valid points, the Fediverse should not get taken over by big business.

Sincerely, Monica Andrews

16 Mar 2023 at 0:57 | Open on universeodon.com
JohnW

@atomicpoet I think it is currently viable. Many ideas are floating around, but they won't be too influential until we get some organization.

Here it feels more like a naturally occurring long-game method that builds strength over time.

Btw... this method works. It is exactly how I built my customer base for my freelance work, which celebrates its 20th anniversary this year.

16 Mar 2023 at 3:35 | Open on universeodon.com
Colin Oatley

@atomicpoet
I don’t see the problem. Mastodon requires servers to host its software. Microsoft is in the business of renting virtual servers, I.e. Azure. How is running Mastodon on an Azure Linux virtual machine worse than running Mastodon on any other Linux server?

16 Mar 2023 at 3:44 | Open on mas.to
DELETED

@atomicpoet This is why #ZincCoop is building #Convene: a software platform that people can build fediverse applications on top of; with an operating model that is socioeconomically sustainable.

16 Mar 2023 at 3:46 | Open on social.coop
TeaPolitics

@atomicpoet
To be fair, Microsoft might be able to keep instances scalable in ways its competitors are failing at.

16 Mar 2023 at 3:58 | Open on toot.io
JudeNunga

@atomicpoet

Maybe "we" should just enjoy what we have, social media that doesn't rely on $$ and is run and built by people because they want to?

Why does it always have to come down to people making money?

What is happening now is done through co-ops and crowdfunding, it may not provide a "living" for people, but that's ok.

The Fediverse already exists, it doesn't need building. It has been built. It doesn't need perpetual growth, as it doesn't have to provide increasing profit, it doesn't have to follow the commercial tech methodology.

It's not broken, it works just fine, it doesn't have to cater to the whole effing world, it doesn't have to compete with FB or twatter or whatever commercial rubbish is out there, it can just be what it is.

@atomicpoet

Maybe "we" should just enjoy what we have, social media that doesn't rely on $$ and is run and built by people because they want to?

Why does it always have to come down to people making money?

What is happening now is done through co-ops and crowdfunding, it may not provide a "living" for people, but that's ok.

16 Mar 2023 at 4:23 | Open on neurodifferent.me
Dave Lane 🇳🇿

@atomicpoet here, we're running into the fact that corporations, are, in fact, in a race to the ethical bottom, and this is a more-or-less inevitable outcome, and anyone working for a corporation is pretty naïve if they think otherwise.

16 Mar 2023 at 4:34 | Open on mastodon.nzoss.nz
James

@atomicpoet What could Cloudlfare have done better with Wildebeest?

15 Mar 2023 at 23:54 | Open on gndh.net
Chris Trottier

@james For one thing, executives at Cloudflare could have actually joined the Fediverse and figured out how people actually use it.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:56 | Open on mastodon.social
James

@atomicpoet Yeah that's fair. The announcement reads more like a case study for their tech stack than anything else.

16 Mar 2023 at 1:35 | Open on gndh.net
Dave Lane 🇳🇿

@atomicpoet keep in mind, of course, that using Azure for Mastodon is foolish as it costs -10-20x more than using an equally reliable, non-US owned cloud infrastructure provider. That way, you're not even gifting your fellow Fediversians' data to the NSA via the US Cloud and Patriot Acts...

16 Mar 2023 at 4:32 | Open on mastodon.nzoss.nz
Bam

@atomicpoet They’ll be here after they get fired.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:22 | Open on sfba.social
Chris Trottier

@Bam Oh, I've seen former Meta employees. I just haven't seen current Meta employees.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:22 | Open on mastodon.social
ijatz_La_Hojita

@atomicpoet Of all #totalitarian tech companies, #Microsoft is currently the most dangerous one, because of the huge array of softwares & hardwares they've injected in most computers users lives: from #Windows to #ChatGPT from #Teams to the #xbox from #Minecraft to #GitHub itself.

They're even working on a digital ID based on the #Bitcoin #algorithm (Satoshi Nakamoto must have puked, when discovering that).

They're the ones who could build a #Metaverse embedded in the "normies" lives

15 Mar 2023 at 23:12 | Open on mastodon.social
Stu

@atomicpoet Honestly, some of them just use social media, and moved when many others did. Folks like Scott Hanselman.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:17 | Open on hachyderm.io
Chris Trottier

@tehstu Sure, first the rank and file come, and then the executives.

After awhile, Microsoft simply asks themselves, "Hey, why not help build out the Fediverse according to their own needs?"

And then they do it.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:21 | Open on mastodon.social
Stu

@atomicpoet I don't see it, it's not a core product. If they wanted one of these things, they'd try to buy one (see Discord and TikTok). Now, selling cloud stuff? Sure.

But to my point, a lot of developers, infosec, etc folks moved from Twitter. It makes sense to have outreach here, make GitHub more flexible, and so on.

I'm not sure if this puts me in the apologist bucket, but I'm way more concerned about Meta turning up.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:38 | Open on hachyderm.io
Chris Trottier

@tehstu Sure, that's always how it starts. Microsoft wants to reach devs, infosec, power users, etc.

And by the way, here's a handy guide on how to deploy Mastodon on Azure!

15 Mar 2023 at 23:40 | Open on mastodon.social
Stu

@atomicpoet How what starts? What analogous situation have they EEE'd recently? Intimately familiar with all their offerings since DOS 3, and I don't see the play here. To do a Google and bully their way into fediverse standards as Google did web?

15 Mar 2023 at 23:43 | Open on hachyderm.io
Chris Trottier

@tehstu Not once have I suggested that they intend to "EEE". I suggest reading the entire thread in full.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:44 | Open on mastodon.social
Stu

@atomicpoet I did, I guess I don't understand your point. Microsoft are here to flog Everything as a Service, which is Nadella's entire spiel. If that's what you're saying, then I agree.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:48 | Open on hachyderm.io
Jeff C. 🇺🇦

@atomicpoet I think the reason you see so many Apple employees is because the overall Mac/iOS developer crowd in general moved here very quickly when it became clear what was happening.

A lot of that was driven by the (correct) expectation that the writing was on the wall for Tweetbot, Twitterific, etc. 3rd party apps have long been in heavy use by this cohort and their creators are fixtures in our community.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:18 | Open on indieweb.social
Michael Stanclift

@atomicpoet I’m not saying they don’t have plans, but also it’s possible it’s just wanting to get more workloads on Azure. I’m skeptical there’s some folks at Microsoft with Grandplan for the Fediverse.

The guide references using Bitnami images. Owned by VMware (my employer) one could decide that between me running an instance and the Bitnami image one could assume VMware has similar Grandplans.

I’m here to assure you that’s far from the case ☺️

15 Mar 2023 at 23:11 | Open on vmst.io
Chris Trottier

@vmstan If WMware published a blog post entitled, "How to host Mastodon using WMware stack", I'd say they're trying to market their services.

There doesn't need to be a grand plan for them to do that.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:20 | Open on mastodon.social
Michael Stanclift

@atomicpoet fair. That blog post also has an error in that it references using Elastic Search 8, which I’m 99.9% isn’t supported (at least it didn’t work when I tried it and the Ruby library that Mastodon uses specifically doesn’t list support for it.)

15 Mar 2023 at 23:27 | Open on vmst.io
Caan Berry
DELETED

@atomicpoet @medium @dotnet @fediversenews or... maybe they just want to help folks who want to deploy a Mastodon server on Azure do so with a handy guide 🤷🏻‍♂️
I, for example, was thinking about my own server and, since I like Azure, this is a nice thing.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:31 | Open on corteximplant.com
Chris Trottier

@canrith ...and that's how we know the marketing works!

15 Mar 2023 at 23:32 | Open on mastodon.social
Ligniform

@atomicpoet I think it's great that this is helping to generate more buzz and 'legitimize' the fediverse, but I'm also worried about what Meta and Microsoft will do in the long run.

15 Mar 2023 at 23:59 | Open on mastodon.social
Caan Berry
Edwin Young

@atomicpoet @medium @dotnet @fediversenews I work at Microsoft, but if Microsoft has a "Fediverse strategy" I don't know about it. Personally I'm here because I used to like Twitter and now I... don't.

I think you're reading way too much into this. Microsoft has spent billions of dollars on computers and buildings to put them in. We want to encourage people to run their workloads there. Providing steps to make that easier is no more mysterious than a mall providing free parking.

16 Mar 2023 at 1:27 | Open on mastodon.online
Chris Trottier

@edyoung @medium @dotnet @fediversenews But don’t you see? That is your plan: “to encourage people to run their workloads there”.

I’m not saying there is a conspiracy. I’m saying you folks are really good at marketing.

I highly suggest reading the entirety of this thread.

16 Mar 2023 at 1:36 | Open on mastodon.social
Edwin Young

@atomicpoet @medium @dotnet @fediversenews I read it. I just think Microsoft is interested in exactly the same kind of way as Hetzner or Digital Ocean is interested: you want to do computation and store data? Use our cloud!

But all the stuff about Microsoft "acting super casual" and beancounters and saving the Fediverse from Big Tech is, IMHO, handwaving disconnected from the facts.

16 Mar 2023 at 4:17 | Open on mastodon.online
ShredderFeeder

@atomicpoet @medium @dotnet @fediversenews

It makes sense.

When I first started playing with Mastodon i did so on a test instance I built in Azure. That test instance, completely de-federated with about 4 users and almost no traffic, ran about $90 a month...

NINETY
DOLLARS
PER
MONTH

I look at how much traffic this instance generates, and even as a largely single-user instance, this would be easily $1,000 a month if I didn't sacrifice VM size/CPU..
16 Mar 2023 at 1:34 | Open on shredderfood.com
Julie Webgirl

@atomicpoet
@medium @dotnet @fediversenews @darnell

Oh FFS. Hey @elfin, I guess Redmond is going to be full of people with Mastodon instances now. You know, those people whose nephew Joey works for MS and they're all so proud of him, he must be a genius and he'll make them one.

New "OH at the coffee shop": So I have an idea... FOR A MASTODON INSTANCE!

*HEADDESK* *HEADDESK*
#SendHelp

16 Mar 2023 at 3:23 | Open on mstdn.social
Dave Lane 🇳🇿
chrishazfun

@atomicpoet it'd be cool if they implemented some sidebar shortcut to an instance in edge

16 Mar 2023 at 4:42 | Open on mstdn.social
J$

@atomicpoet you KNOW it’s time to don survival wear and dust off your flamethrower when MS threatens to get “involved”.

16 Mar 2023 at 6:50 | Open on mastodon.nl
Jim
Derek Flenniken

@atomicpoet @medium @dotnet @fediversenews it’d be bad business to not market hosting to mastodon instances during a boom. Co-op still needs to host somewhere and pay a bill.

Wait and see if they get into integrating or coding for it I guess.

Or ultimately, see who gets onto whatever standards boards exist.

17 Mar 2023 at 3:10 | Open on sfba.social
Richard Stocks

@atomicpoet Has anyone done any cost estimates on this? Can’t help but think most would be better off just going to @mastohost (or similar).

17 Mar 2023 at 22:44 | Open on toot.geeky.af
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