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Top-level
 You know what's funny about this? Microsoft is trying to act super casual about their Fediverse plans. When I bring this up, people (i.e., Microsoft fans) say I'm spreading a conspiracy theory. But what is the conspiracy theory exactly? That they're really good at marketing -- specifically to open source communities? 61 comments
Look, I'll even give Microsoft compliments. It's nice that so many Microsoft employees actually use the Fediverse, and you can talk to them like real human beings. This is in contrast to Meta. Where are the Meta employees? They're not here, and yet those folks plan on building a "decentralized social network" based on ActivityPub. Sounds suspicious. So there you have it. Microsoft is actually eating their dog food right now. I welcome MSofties here. Then I can ask them directly: "Why does it take so long after I click?" It's also clear to me why Microsoft is pushing Mastodon on Azure right now: Cloudflare has their offering with Wildebeest. So why not publish a guide on how to use vanilla Mastodon with Azure? Seems like an easy win -- especially with all of Wildebeest's missteps. I worked for Microsoft's Xbox division for 3 years. Not directly as an employee, but as someone doing customer support. What Microsoft *really* excels at is building online communities. They're exceptional at it, in fact. Microsoft will never just drop in and say, "Here's our Fediverse offering!" Instead, they'll be exemplary citizens, listen very carefully, and amplify feedback from the community that just so happens to align with their marketing goals.  @atomicpoet I think that's part of it, I think part of it also is birdsite is no longer viable for what your thread described, a) as people are leaving the toxic site for more .... stability, and b) Birds (advertisers) flocking together and leaving bitdsite as well. Also Microsoft's dominance rarely starts with evil moustache twirlers that want to "embrace, extend, extinguish". Sometimes that's where it ends up, but that's not usually where it starts. Usually it starts with rank-and-file Microsoft employees saying, "I want to build the next big thing!" So they do. But how do they build it? With Microsoft "integrations". Then the executives get involved, and they naturally want to monetize... Most people who work at Big Tech companies don't wake up in the morning and think to themselves, "How do I wreck the Fediverse?" Instead, they go, "I want to build something that I genuinely care about -- and I have the financial resources to do it!" So they do because why not, right? Where it gets dodgy is when the bean counters start asking, "How do we decrease churn?" What I'm getting at here is that there doesn't need to be a grand conspiracy. There just has to be nerds at Big Tech companies that want to build the "next big thing". They have financial resources. They have marketing. They have a guy doing analytics who says, "This shift in our UI will increase revenue by a factor of 2X!" Then you have the guy in accounting rejoice because it worked, and an executive who says, "Next big thing created shareholder value!" Anyway, how do we alleviate the danger of Big Tech "building" the Fediverse? We need to consider alternatives to Big Tech. Specifically, we should consider crowdfunding or non-profits or co-ops. Maybe we should make it viable for people to make a living from the Fediverse without having to do it through Microsoft, Apple, or Google. Just food for thought.  @atomicpoet what youre describing here is pretty similar to some stuff that happens in the show. also, its an exceptionally well done show @atomicpoet - When you consider that Microsoft is trying to turn Windows into an OS-as-a-Service platform, plus all of their other baggage, plus the rest of the big tech baggage, we shouldn't be inclined to want to affiliate with Microsoft or Meta or Google. But that also means that smaller companies have Have HAVE to resist the lure of big money from Big Tech. @atomicpoet @atomicpoet And co-tech is a burgeoning network of tech co-ops. I hope I've got that right? You make valid points, the Fediverse should not get taken over by big business. Sincerely, Monica Andrews  @atomicpoet I think it is currently viable. Many ideas are floating around, but they won't be too influential until we get some organization. Here it feels more like a naturally occurring long-game method that builds strength over time. Btw... this method works. It is exactly how I built my customer base for my freelance work, which celebrates its 20th anniversary this year. @atomicpoet @atomicpoet This is why #ZincCoop is building #Convene: a software platform that people can build fediverse applications on top of; with an operating model that is socioeconomically sustainable. @atomicpoet @JudeNunga Because work is work, and people should be compensated for it. Do you work for free? lol sure. I do a lot of "work" for free, have done my whole life. If I work at something I want to do, then it's my choice to do that, I don't expect to be "compensated" by others. No one is forcing people to use social media, in fact we've done quite well without it for centuries. No one is forcing people to host instances on the Fediverse, or actually even asking people to do it, people do stuff for their own satisfaction, not everyone wants to exploit others for money. By selling my labour, or by doing the work of providing these things for myself, eg: I grow my own food. Capitalism means that people work for profit, it's how the majority of humans have decided they want to live, to exploit others for profit. The profit has been increasingly concentrated in the hands of very few. It doesn't mean it's the only way. The Fediverse doesn't have to follow the exploitative tenets of capitalism and greed. It can be different. @JudeNunga That’s right. You sell your labour. And people who write software, administrate instances, and provide content are providing labour that others are willing to pay for. So why not give them the means to make a living? As you already noted, the Fediverse can be different *if* we prove and build a different, more sustainable model. Which could include — but isn’t limited to — crowdfunding, non-profits, and co-ops.  @atomicpoet here, we're running into the fact that corporations, are, in fact, in a race to the ethical bottom, and this is a more-or-less inevitable outcome, and anyone working for a corporation is pretty naïve if they think otherwise. @james For one thing, executives at Cloudflare could have actually joined the Fediverse and figured out how people actually use it. @atomicpoet Yeah that's fair. The announcement reads more like a case study for their tech stack than anything else. @atomicpoet keep in mind, of course, that using Azure for Mastodon is foolish as it costs -10-20x more than using an equally reliable, non-US owned cloud infrastructure provider. That way, you're not even gifting your fellow Fediversians' data to the NSA via the US Cloud and Patriot Acts... @atomicpoet it’s possible to overthink this. Cloud Service Providers are paid per second for people computing, and Mastodon is an increasingly popular consumer of compute services. Publishing guides on how to do it in a way that pays them, generates revenue.  @Bam Oh, I've seen former Meta employees. I just haven't seen current Meta employees.  @atomicpoet Of all #totalitarian tech companies, #Microsoft is currently the most dangerous one, because of the huge array of softwares & hardwares they've injected in most computers users lives: from #Windows to #ChatGPT from #Teams to the #xbox from #Minecraft to #GitHub itself. They're even working on a digital ID based on the #Bitcoin #algorithm (Satoshi Nakamoto must have puked, when discovering that). They're the ones who could build a #Metaverse embedded in the "normies" lives  @atomicpoet Honestly, some of them just use social media, and moved when many others did. Folks like Scott Hanselman. @tehstu Sure, first the rank and file come, and then the executives. After awhile, Microsoft simply asks themselves, "Hey, why not help build out the Fediverse according to their own needs?" And then they do it. @atomicpoet I don't see it, it's not a core product. If they wanted one of these things, they'd try to buy one (see Discord and TikTok). Now, selling cloud stuff? Sure. But to my point, a lot of developers, infosec, etc folks moved from Twitter. It makes sense to have outreach here, make GitHub more flexible, and so on. I'm not sure if this puts me in the apologist bucket, but I'm way more concerned about Meta turning up. @tehstu Sure, that's always how it starts. Microsoft wants to reach devs, infosec, power users, etc. And by the way, here's a handy guide on how to deploy Mastodon on Azure! @atomicpoet How what starts? What analogous situation have they EEE'd recently? Intimately familiar with all their offerings since DOS 3, and I don't see the play here. To do a Google and bully their way into fediverse standards as Google did web? @tehstu Not once have I suggested that they intend to "EEE". I suggest reading the entire thread in full. @atomicpoet I did, I guess I don't understand your point. Microsoft are here to flog Everything as a Service, which is Nadella's entire spiel. If that's what you're saying, then I agree. @atomicpoet My fault, that Microsoft would be flogging Stuff as a Service here was obvious to me so I thought (likely, misread) the thread as describing something else, such as meddling in standards a la Meta, potentially. But yeah, they're just doing their thing, on every community folks will listen. Although, I do think some are just genuinely posting the same inane stuff as some of the rest of us, even if specific employees seem to have community outreach as part of their role.  @atomicpoet I think the reason you see so many Apple employees is because the overall Mac/iOS developer crowd in general moved here very quickly when it became clear what was happening. A lot of that was driven by the (correct) expectation that the writing was on the wall for Tweetbot, Twitterific, etc. 3rd party apps have long been in heavy use by this cohort and their creators are fixtures in our community. |
Gregory's Server
I knew Microsoft was up to something the moment I saw a whole lot of Microsoft employees suddenly congregate on the Fediverse.
To be fair, they're not the only Big Tech company doing this. There's lots of Apple and Google employees here too.
It's just that Microsoft is more blatant about the direction they want to go with the Fediverse: to sell Github, Azure, and other dev-related services.