 The downsides of being frugal. The #OpenStreetMap Foundation spends, even with a slightly more ambitious budget this year than previously, less than %1 of what WMF/Wikipedia does, but is struggling to make ends meet. There is no threat a la the infamous Wikipedia ads that the project will shut down, but without the funds activities will have to be cut back significantly. If you consider OSM valuable consider https://supporting.openstreetmap.org/ 130 comments
@simon I love OSM, and I searched again to create my own tiles, found this: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Creating_your_own_tiles why is that article both french and english? I can talk both but it's weird. @kiki_mwai_mwai @simon I guess that page hasn't been fully translated. It looks like it was probably copied from an English source, and translation begun but not finished. If you're up for it, I'd say go ahead and translate the remaining bits!  @adam @simon Indeed the payment options are shit. The problem with #Paypal & credit card via paypal: https://git.disroot.org/cyberMonk/liberethos_paradigm/src/branch/master/rap_sheets/paypal.md The only alternative is intl. bank xfers. And since itās not SEPA thereās likely a money grab by the intermediate banks involved. Fuck that. @batalanto @adam Cheques nearly never make sense (if you think bank fees for xfers are bad, you are in for a surprise wrt cheques outside of the US), and accepting cash has its own issues. @simon @adam I thought cheques were the norm in the UK. In the US: paper checks are still king for sending money remotely. Wires are absurdly expensive. E-checks move slower than snail-mailed paper checks & they are subject to scrutiny. I tried to send ~$300 by popmoney (echeck) & got interrogated as to how I know the person & what I was buying. Took like 4 days. If they need the money bad enough, they will accept cash. We have a civic duty to fight the #warOnCash. @batalanto @simon @adam @BrianSmith950 And for remote p2p payments, how is that done? I pay my bills through my bank's website or phone app. Remote P2P can be done through the bank app or paypal or a number of other apps. @batalanto @simon @adam We tend to get a debit card directly from the bank, which can be used to draw cash from the bank ATM's (Any bank, a lot of big shops also provide them for free but smaller operators charge you to draw money. they are all linked) and can be used for purchases, the money comes straight out of your current account. @BrianSmith950 @batalanto @adam while this is all a bit OT: cheques haven't been a thing in most of western Europe for at least half a century. Essentially they died out as soon as salaries started getting paid by bank transfers/wires. I've never actually wrote out a personal cheque (and I've maybe cashed perhaps max a dozen or so, probable not even that many). @BrianSmith950 @batalanto @simon @adam Same situation in EU. For the checks, I haven't seen one in 25 years. Northern countries are almost all digital. @batalanto @BrianSmith950 @simon @adam just because you think it's shit doesn't mean it is. Lots of people use it and find it practical. Most banks in Europe that I know have almost instant if not instant bank transfers. Why would I bother with checks š @matzipan Not sure you read the whole thread. Anyone who is well informed & does not consider #paypal shit is likely a piece of shit themselves. By āinformedā, I mean being aware of these damning facts: https://git.disroot.org/cyberMonk/liberethos_paradigm/src/branch/master/rap_sheets/paypal.md Most people are either uninformed, or unwilling to let ethics get in their way. OSM needs to become informed about Paypal. @batalanto @matzipan @BrianSmith950 @adam the point is without paypal the OSMF would be without a payment processor, nobody has any illusions about the company as such, using them is simply a practicality. @simon @batalanto @matzipan @BrianSmith950 This is false. If it weren't for PayPal, OSMF would still be able to have payments processed via their bank or bitcoin. Here's a link to the documentation showing this: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Donations @adam @batalanto @matzipan @BrianSmith950 there are things like credit cards that many many people prefer to use for such payments, and not supporting that would immediately eliminate a large number of potential donors. @matzipan I used Paypal before they locked my account & kept the money -- before I became broadly aware of Paypalās wrongdoing. w.r.t checks, what do you do in Europe if you want to pay someone who does not have a bank account? A check covers that situation. Cash is better, but because of the #warOnCash Belgium, France, & Spain have outlawed cash transactions above a certain amount. @matzipan I agree checks are rare in Europe but there are a number of factors that drive people to be unbanked which makes checks more important. @matzipan @batalanto @BrianSmith950 @simon @adam that is a good point and I would see both paypal locking people out and banks not supporting web or non-googlefied smartphones as topics for another digital banking reform in the EU. @batalanto @BrianSmith950 @simon @adam I just don't. This problem does not for me for sums that cannot be managed by some cash. @batalanto @BrianSmith950 @simon @adam I think qualifying so many people (including myself) as pieces of shit is probably not nice thing to do and maybe you need to reconsider your approach. @batalanto @BrianSmith950 @simon @adam the transfer system in the UK is either BACS or FPS, the banks themselves pay for each transaction as a cost of business. I doubt there's any sale of personal details going on as we do have data protection laws. @sarahdalgulls @sarahdalgulls @batalanto @BrianSmith950 @adam @simon Iāve not written a cheque in about as long. However I get one in the post from my energy supplier every quarter. They wonāt transfer the money to me directly. @largess Good news, the board got back to me and they do accept bitcoin! Their address is 1J3pt9koWJZTo2jarg98RL89iJqff9Kobp And that can be confirmed here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Donations (I mention both the wallet address and URL in case someone tries to update that wiki page to do a little switcharoo) @batalanto @adam @simon this. Sadly. As soon as i saw i had the choice between paypal and paypal i aborted&came back here š @simon done. Early on, I was an active contributor, taking ever more eccentric routes on my daily commute to capture obscure roads. Nowadays I'm a consumer and it seems only right to contribute.  @kristbaum not that I know of (and I know a fair bit :-)). While the organisations are similar in many ways they are also very different. Not to mention that the WMF generally functions as the example of the kind of organisation the OSMF shouldn't turn in to (in a friendly way I point out). So, unrealisitic, I would say  @simon does anyone know if, after donating, they offer a German Spendenbescheinigung or ZuwendungsbestƤtigung ? Thank you in advance š cc: @openstreetmap @dminca @openstreetmap you can get a receipt, but as the OSMF isn't a charity (not going in to the nitty gritty details of non-profits and all the associated differences from country to country) tl;dr that isn't going to help you. Note however that the German OSMF local chapter is a charity, see fossgis.de/verein/spenden  @piratenpanda @simon @openstreetmap Looks like it does, at least this is what they stipulate on the website. You need to write in the payment description āSpende OpenStreetMapā or āSpende OSMā  @piratenpanda @simon @dminca Yes-ish. It doesn't go directly to the OSMFoundation, rather to FOSSGIS. But they use that for OSM stuff, like running the German speaking OSM(+ other open geo) conference. Many of the web services that you see on osm.org are on FOSSGIS hosted (&paid for) services.  @derickr well that depends on the budget naturally. Essentially donations need to be total budget - membership fees - any surplus from conferences. This year that is Ā£500'000 and a bit. See https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Board/Minutes/2023-02/Budget @simon Sure, but put that up and front. The current membership recurrent payment is only through PayPal which isn't appropriate. @simon my membership lapsed because I can't be arsed to do the complications around paying OSMF @derickr @simon in the UK you can use a bank transfer. If the forms annoy you(fair), you can st transfer and we'll still use the cash to pay for bandwidth. https://supporting.openstreetmap.org/alternative-payment-options/ @derickr you need to discuss that with @grischard ... but I suspect the gist is that the OSMF is happy to have at least one payment processor at all.   @simon Done ā
And a big Thank You! to everyone involved with this important project!  @Dashtop as GIS tools go, iD (the online editor) is considered to be quite user friendly. The intricacies of the subject matter however can't all be abstracted away and tools like StreetComplete don't allow you to change "everything" so that isn't a fair comparison. @Dashtop well iD has over the years taken a couple of million to write and maintain, I think everybody would be open to an even more user friendly editor if you arrange the financing. @simon Commercial companies know that to sell something you need to make it easy to buy. One click and done. All there foundations like @openstreetmap and @gnome make it difficult instead: enter you name, last name, click 30 checkboxes, etc. No matter they sit without money. I took one turn against the navigation's (wrong) directions and it stopped navigating all at once
@simon if only shadow had the money currently to support all the projects they use they would... but for now a reply and boost is the best shadow can do |
Gregory's Server
@simon Excited that we'll (@stadiamaps) be sponsoring very soon! š