@Gargron I personally like them so you can reply to someone in a more visible way to other people. (Rather than boosting and then replying or screenshotting etc). I DO agree however that there needs to be moderation as they can be misused.

@Gargron this is the way!

@Gargron I'd love to see user-moderated QPs. Someone adds to the conversation, great. Someone attacks, one click and the connection is gone, including an approval feature, a "QP request" with the attached text.

@Gargron "Considering it is next to godliness." -Benjamin Franklin, probably

@Gargron I didn’t read the comments, sorry, there are too many. I agree with somehow keeping the emphasis on the originating post. Someone one-upping everyone else’s posts and getting all the attention will be community destroying, your producers will stop producing.

@Gargron
The only use I saw for it when I poked around on Truth Social for a few days (wanted to see what they did to Mastodon) was for trolling. I really didn't see an actual reason for it. I would think it's going to be a headache when editable posts are thrown into the mix.

Seems like we've been doing just fine without quoted posts 🤷‍♂️

@Gargron My experience gere so far has been overwhelmingly positive and that, I have come to the conclusion, is because the blasted "quote" doesn't exist.

Stay positive.

@Gargron can you have a virtue signaling toggle so I can diminish performative nonaction in my feed?

@Gargron the fear of many to post quoting is not without some foundation, as it can (and has been) grossly misused by internet trolls. But in my case it helped me elaborate on the quoted post or add a remark to it — I’d happily use it but I can also see why many others don’t want to.

@Gargron Sometimes, I miss them, because I frequently used them to add context to a share.

@Gargron Can we at least disable them? I don't want to see quote posts.

@Gargron @atanas I am less of a fan. I think it encourages echo-chamber engagement. A little work (and copy/paste is very little work) to quote someone isn’t a lot to ask.

@Gargron please consider looking at "boost with note", which some have discussed around here. I had summarized it here https://finkasaur.us/@noah/109509447679347607

@Gargron If people can turn them off it doesn't seem like an issue. I want 'em.

@Gargron 👎🏼

@Gargron Please don't do this.

@Gargron Discovery features with individual controls would be the (complicated) preference.

@Gargron thank you <3

@Gargron Good! 😃

@Gargron It's your baby. You can giveth and you can taketh away. I'll still keep contributing to your Patreon account 😃

@Gargron

Hey @El_Jere !!!!
Que quoi entamer 2023 avec le sourire...

[homemade QRT]

@Gargron I don't feel strongly either way. But I DO feel strongly that changing ones mind (and listening to others) is a very good trait in humans. Especially in leaders - which you are, in a way.

I agree that it should be opt-out and implemented thoughtfully.

@Gargron Well, you have tools for those who don't like them or for when they are abusive: we can block the abuser; we can block anyone from quoting us. Being able to quote a post with a comment to introduce your reason for doing so is a tool I like, and I personally don't use it to attack anyone. I don't quote posts that offend me.

@Gargron Prefer an opt-in tbh

@Gargron
I hope that there are ways that researchers could evaluate some of the impacts if there are any on how adding QTs might impact conversations here if they're added.

@Gargron

definately a bad move, there are enough tools already

@Gargron 👍🎯🗝️

@Gargron Please add my vote 👍

@Gargron after reading some of these replies.. I don’t feel like theres anything wrong with quoting a post. It’s just a repost with a comment. All in one place.

You can’t really get context for someone reposting a picture or video unless you go to their profile and see if they added a follow up post like “as per my last post”.

It did get a bed rep from Twitter, but I think this feature in the hands of mastodon users would be beneficial to engaging and understanding people.

@Gargron For me, it's the one-and-only thing I miss about Twitter. :-)

@Gargron Popularity does not equate to it being a good idea. Opt-in/blockable if you do it.

@Gargron I think if QPs are introduced, it will boil down to whether they are enabled or disabled by default, as that's what most users will have. If off by default, the feature might as well not exist; if on by default, then using it will become the paradigm and users might occasionally have to circumvent the original poster's preference by linking to the post or taking a screenshot. So I think making it optional might clutter the interface for little benefit. I might be entirely wrong, though.

@Gargron « there is clearly a lot of demand for it » : do you have stats, or articles with stats, about this ? I am curious of the tools and of the protocol used to assert this. Thanks in advance

@Gargron I am new here but my online roots go back to running a Wildcat! BBS starting in the late 80's.

You made the right decision to not allow QT's and I hope you stick with it. Opt in just seems like it would be a mess.

I just read this whole thread and without any QT's it just flowed in a relatively focused way. I like Mastodon for this.

Would QT's increase the moderation burden on Instance Admins? That would be bad.

How many levels would be allowed? Could I QT a QT of a QT of a QT?

@Gargron The thing I like about you (and Mastodon) is your willingness to listen mindfully to the community.

@Gargron IMO, the more critical part than the preview is being able to have a link (to a toot on another server) be shown on my own server, so that I can follow its author, reply, etc.

@Gargron It certainly can be useful. I think the important factor is that people get notified when they are quoted & have the ability to do something about it.

@Gargron Here’s a perfect example of how it is going to be weaponized:

@Gargron I would love it. It allows one to add context to a boosted post.

@Gargron My heart sank when I read that. My observation is that QT’s are significantly used for negative rather than positive reasons. This feels like a huge moment for the future of Mastodon.

@Gargron I highly recommend reading this if you haven't already: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alexkantrowitz/how-the-retweet-ruined-the-internet

I'm not 100% against quote posts, but if implemented tactlessly they're a one-way ticket to toxicity. Let's try to avoid implementing a "dunk mechanism".

@Gargron

#QuoteTweets were (and are) a major vector forangry #Misogynist / #Incel / #MRA (#AndrewTate anyone?) abuse heaped upon women by angry men using the #QT vector

If you don't solve for this explicitly you're making a major tactical and strategic error

An error that could alter #Mastodon's future indefinitely

Do *not* capitulate to the "Oh but I just *love* quote tweets" crowd without doing serious homework and coming up with a rational solution

Not just the most popular one

@Gargron
That would be great. Quoting was one of thefeatures I really missed after moving from Twitter. It gives me the possibility to not only spreading the word of others, but commenting it at the same time and giving my opinion about it.
@apps

@Gargron Have you seen Re: Toot for iOS and Mac? https://mastodon.social/@simonbs/109606012746062832

@Gargron Don't! Please.

@Gargron I think an essential component of this would be, if the OP blocks the person quote-tweeting them, their post could be immediately made private to the quoter only. (Or deleted altogether, but I think making it private would work.) There needs to be some control available for the quotee. Allowing opt-outs is good but people will want flexibility after posting too.

@Gargron For what it’s worth, I feel there’s more cases against than for.

At the very least, please consider the requirement that the original poster can consent or not to their content being quoted.

@Gargron If it’s possible to build in revokable and customizable consent-to-be-quoted and the ability for readers to turn off quote posts (as we already can regular boosts) I think the downsides could be mitigated.

@Gargron there isn't a lot of demand for it. It's a small vocal minority pushing for it 😒

@Gargron a humble opinion from a new user: if I visit a country or start a new job, I work within their confines (e.g., learn their policies or their language). I don't demand that everyone speak my language or change the rules to the ones I think are good for me. If you think quote tweets aren't within your original vision, then people should just understand this. They can join or not join. Please don't make this into the new Twitter. People are here because this community is different.

@Gargron IMO It will only increase shitstorms :/

@Gargron just after I got all set to be like "QTs are pretty much how Twitter turned us into feral animals"

@Gargron I think that some of the pushback is from people who think quote replies makes #mastodon "into (the worst version of) twitter" but there's no reason that will be true.

As a feature it us useful for providing context to a boost, without obscuring it.

It also could be a client side implementation with a show parent button for any reply

@Gargron @vyr the problem with Twitter isn’t that it’s centralized, but that it’s Twitter

Please don’t turn mastodon all the way into Twitter, it’s already way too close as it is

@Gargron nooooo

@Gargron There's got to be a happy medium where the feature is there for users and admins that want it and a way to filter out or disable that content for those that don't.

@Gargron I think many are tiresome but others timeless and hit current events on the nose. Brief helps. I guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder. Regarding, say, Elon Musk and others: “There is a race between mankind and the universe. Mankind is trying to build bigger, better, faster, and more foolproof machines. The universe is trying to build bigger, better, and faster fools. So far the universe is winning.”- Albert Einstein (an actual genius)

@Gargron it’s no big deal, make it optional and move on

@Gargron

God no please.

@Gargron A recent immigrant, I appreciate their absence.

@Gargron
I'm in favor

@Gargron You're the boss, boss.

@Gargron
Thank you for being open to ways to to develop and evolve the site.

@Gargron if this happens i'd like to be able to both not see anyone else's quote posts, and not be able to be quote posted.

@Gargron bummer

@Gargron Please don't. I'm already sick of seeing Twitter reposts here.

@Gargron I despise quote posts, so I’m definitely not part of the demand. Not looking forward to seeing them be used like on the #hellbirdsite. All they’re good for is hate and dogpiling. I hope there’s a way to opt out. I freaking hate them.

@Gargron
I'm very curious about how this would poll.

@Gargron @gamingonlinux something to cheer you up 😋

@Gargron As a non-tweeter user, what are they for?

@Gargron I think there's a healthy enough moderation community that it could overcome the negatives at this point. Especially with opt-in.

@Gargron
Hoffe sehr, dass die zitierten Beiträge nicht kommen.

Die Argumente, die dagegen sprechen, sind ja weithin bekannt (z.B. Förderung toxischer Umgangston, "Übereinander reden") und ich würde allen, die unbedingt sowas brauchen, dringend Dienste wie Friendica empfehlen, die diese Funktion bereits haben.

@Gargron please do it! Those who are opposed are free not to adopt it.

@Gargron It's definitely not trivial. My observation on Twitter is that the worst part of quote tweeting is how locked accounts can do it. It makes it impossible for people to identify and block the sources of coordinated harassment.

@Gargron
You had your reasons to not implement them till now. As a twitter-refugee, I trust your earlier reasoning on this issue. We can do without quotes.

@Gargron

I hope you will keep QTs out.

All design decisions are compromises, and yes there are valid arguments in favour of a QT feature. The arguments against QTs have the benefit of being backed by the reality of Mastodon's discussion culture, which we want to preserve and which was shaped by ruling out QTs.

9 out of 10 of those loudly demanding QTs have never asked how they might benefit from not using them. Their very loudness is the strongest argument against QTs.

@Gargron this would be a great option to have!!

@Gargron Don't!

@Gargron
I use them to say things like 'look at this brilliant post', or 'check out the hilarious comment thread on this post'. Never thought of them as an abuse tool.

@Gargron a 'show context in feed' checkbox option on replies might work? So that when I reply to a message, people can see the replied toot in their feeds, which they can override on a per user basis. I would go for opt out, because opt in might make for awkward reading if writers assume people will have context.

@Gargron

For me, it's way to respond to a post in a way that doesn't hijack a conversation. Often times, my replies aren't directly relevant to the primary conversation – mostly a matter for tangential discussion.

@Gargron I definitely think there's ways it can be done well. I used them a lot on Twitter to "yes and" threads I supported.

Yes, others sometimes used them to brigade, which is bad. But there are also ample good uses. Designing it in a way to maximize the good uses and minimize the bad ones is a challenge, I agree, but a worthwhile one.

@Gargron @fishkin Fedi-verse wide search or at least choose your server search

@Gargron in scrolling through the replies here, it looks like it’s a culture battle btw people who have enjoyed the silo’d & quieter aspect here (along with being really techy) vs the new people who are missing a wider conversation & who have been part of big cultural movements & need/want to continue that here. Almost like introverts vs extroverts. I would say, then, that the personal and societal arguments on both sides are valid. Offering options for both is the solution, along with the UX.

@Gargron frankly, feeling strongly about it was one of your best decisions, so i'm not sure why you'd want to ruin that as well. there is a lot of demand for it simply because it is a feature people miss from twitter. people who have not had the feature for years don't miss it.

@Gargron @ppatel We already have boosts you can't turn off with 3rd party apps. Maybe add the ability to filter them with the API like you can on the web interface please?

@Gargron Just adding a voice to the “I’d really rather we didn’t” category. The experience of browsing mastodon vs ye olde Twitter is night and day in regards to original content.

I think it’s inevitable that QT functionality empowers folks to have endless “takes” on the same posts. Even taking the harassment angle out of it (which is quite seriously imho) it’s not good for post quality.

@Gargron It's one of the main things that makes Twitter such a sewer. It's a feature I was glad to lose.

@Gargron yes please!

@Gargron thank u

@Gargron Once that's out of the stable there'll be no way to control it...Twitter's toxic use of it is still too fresh in people's minds;

@Gargron I’d rather copy, paste and label it myself. Like this: QT. ***I don't feel as strongly about quote posts as I did in 2018. Personally, I am not a fan, but there is clearly a lot of demand for it. We're considering it.***

I used the old AOL boards and we had convos that lasted for days at times. We all Quoted one another to keep the conversation going. People need a way to quote one another, but a complete Quote Toot is not worth the harassment it will bring.

@Gargron Too bad. Couldn't handle the woke pressure I'm guessing.

@Gargron Go with your gut, Eugen. Mastodon isn't the bird site, thankfully. You've created a wonderful space here. I hope it stays that way.

@Gargron Thanks. Having toggles at the instance or user level makes a lot of sense. It's very useful for news and commentary, imo.

@Gargron This is why we need it. There are multiple historical stories referenced in this one post. Thank you.
https://newsie.social/@mlq3/109624766325643065