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Top-level
 There's going to be a massive land grab of all these big instances. There will be lots of merging and acquiring too. My advice is that you all become *very* aware of who owns your instance and why. Get to know your admins—make sure their values align with your own. If you don't want to put your social media life in the hands of strangers, then self-host your own instance. 255 comments
@mveron Caveat: if they're a non-profit or a volunteer. Give no donations to instances run by for-profits.
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@atomicpoet I imagine that as Mastodon now is in the spotlight as a potential Twitter replacement, certain entities will see an opportunity to carve out power, profit, and influence by acquiring instances and centralising power. To everyone using mastodon.cloud and mstdn.jp: remember, you're not locked into those instances. If you want, you can migrate elsewhere. This is not Twitter—you have a choice regarding where your home will be on the Fediverse. A warning: there's going to be a concerted effort to re-centralize the Fediverse. As we've just seen with the acquisition of pawoo.net, that's already happening. What are you going to do to thwart this trend?  @atomicpoet As much as I agree w/ you, such an effort will fail. We can all vote w/ our feet by walking away to other instances. And if such 're-centralized' instances get blocked, they lose the momentum of network effect fairly fast. @gisiger Yes, that's one failsafe mechanism for the Fediverse. However, people need to care enough about de-centralization.  @atomicpoet @gisiger the general population doesn't care though and likely never will. the option with the biggest marketing budget will get the largest user base @atomicpoet Does it matter? If the underlying protocols are architected for federation and easy migration then any instances that go bad won't last long. @rob The instances that have gone bad have lasted for a very long time. Technology does not replace human moderation. @atomicpoet If the actions of the operators cause users any problems then they are two button presses away from migrating to another instance. The Musk problem couldn't arise here, provided acquirers don't do deeply evil things like defeating the migration mechanism. Someone *will* try it and the community response will define how the ecosystem eventually goes. @rob With all do respect, the Musk problem can not only happen on Mastodon, it has happened. You might want to look into a few more instances. @rob @atomicpoet They could easily disable the migration/export data button in their instance and literally lock people in? @rob @atomicpoet you're assuming that users are all aware of and invested in decentralization. Many Twitter migrators might even actively prefer a centralized model and be complicit. If that, or even just sheer ignorance from people seeking "the next thing," hits a critical mass, then no one will need to defeat the migration mechanism. It'll become irrelevant. @rob @atomicpoet That's a very naive stance. If you think bad things can't happen here, you probably wont be careful or vigilat and then they WILL happen. Those "two button presses" can just be disabled. The instance can do stuff to attract many users and then just change the protocol step by step. It's not the first time that would happen. And ignoring that threat won't just make it go away. Just saw this post and can assure that my post was a coincidence. But then again I do post about hating capitalism most days. @atomicpoet “What are you going to do to thwart this trend?”  @atomicpoet And btw, a lot of Japanese people that are aware of Pawoo or even use it don't even know it's a Mastodon server. @atomicpoet So, last time I checked my server had approx. 40 Accounts. And I am more and more content with that fact. When I chose it, it was a random pick, because it was a regional server. Now I understand, that the size is just perfect for me 😄 @atomicpoet I run my own private instance. But admittedly, if someone gives me a ton of money for it, well... @atomicpoet The biggest issue with federation is trust. Unless smaller instances market themselves as trustworthy, barely any new users will pick them. Many small instance admin teams are anonymous random people. This doesn't help. The biggest instances benefit from "everyone I know has picked them, so can't be bad" and "too big to fail". We as users have no real way to influence the masses and as bad as it makes me feel saying it, we need ... "influencers" for that. @tobyx The way to fix this is to build a culture that values de-centralization. The notion of self-hosting and administrating your own instance should be normalized. We should embrace small. @atomicpoet As you've posted, big money is coming in, acquiring instances already. But I think there's also going to be smaller players, funded organizations with boards instead of anonymous admins that promise a culture that people can subscribe to. Made sustainable by people paying for a service—just a small amount. Just like with email where Gmail dominates, but it doesn't bother me too much. There's a healthy ecosystem for email out there for people who care and support smaller companies. @atomicpoet Oh and I think many people will stay far away from running their own instances because social media is such a controversial topic in many legislations. The legal ramifications are insane. @atomicpoet @tobyx we should find ways to monetize them like miners. Otherways they will eat us. There are no financial incentives to run own instance and now there is one - I potentially could be bouth by big fish. without some kind of money it's a voluntary lose deal. And why they should do it for free? Don't they deserve salary? Why they should work another job, aren't they instance valuable? Or we want them to work for some corporation and managing instance on work-free hours? @atomicpoet@mastodon.social Well … I don’t see how that would succeed. Even if all the large instances are bought and de-federated in an effort to centralise stuff, those of us here on our own instances would still be here as part of the fedi. No? I mean …. Who is going to want to pay me money for my calckey instance with just me on it and name like bkgrdclrschm.link?   @atomicpoet listen and learn! I have my own instance and the fediverse is one big learning curve. Once I'm sure of the best course I'll take action. It probably takes me a little longer than other folks. My brain can be a little slow. I very rarely see the instance on my timeline but understand this is no reason for complacency. Everyone needs to be aware that Mask Group trades a crypto token. This same entity now owns pawoo.net, mstdn.jo, and mastodon.cloud. @atomicpoet they seem to have quite a few things going on around so-called Web 3.0:- https://we.mask.io/t/building-the-bridge-to-web3-0-introducing-the-mask-network-ecosystem-map/163 @atomicpoet is re-centralising any different to some of the *giant* instances. I'm a big believer in it being a federation of planets, some will be bigger some will be smaller, and that works. It is definitely an interesting journey ahead however it pans out, but ultimately users have *choice* and that's a good thing. @jared M&A is a kind of recentralization. I certainly don't want one entity to be 90% of the Fediverse. @atomicpoet I'm not sure where I'd find the numbers but I'd say that geographically we see that with what I'd have to say is close to 90% of aussie users on aus.social and a large chunk of irish users on one instance too. There's a certain confidence organisations like mozilla can bring to running big instances and I thoroughly support that move (and agree with your earlier post points on how they could do better fediverse too!) @atomicpoet PS man.. please sit down for a chat with me sometime for this new podcast :) I'd love to talk your ideas for different future-fediverse things. You've had plenty of interesting to say since I started following you. @atomicpoet not sure if the source code can some be licensed in a way disallowing such use cases @atomicpoet Mastodon has the ability to let people run their own instances by their domainserver they rented... so there is always an escape plan for this.  @atomicpoet Also - the larger the #instance, the greater the risk that, for example, due to poor #moderation, we will unwittingly become victims of defederation by other instances. Let's be as close to our admin as possible - preferably be your own admin of your instance. @atomicpoet how can I find infos about my instance ? Cant seem to find them, maybe i dont have the good keywords @atomicpoet As I’m currently finding out, this is not trivial at all. The technical part is doable for a seasoned sysadmin but not for people unfamiliar with servers and software development. The real issue however is discoverability and resource consumption. My tiny instance was close to empty until I enabled relays, which then flooded the media cache with data at several GB/hour. CPU usage spiked to an average of 175% on a two-core VPS. Also, repeatedly, posts arrive with large-ish delays. @hrbf There's another way to build federation without relays. But I can talk about that another day. @atomicpoet My point being: as is, your suggestion appears not to be a suitable solution for the issue you’re raising. @hrbf There's no doubt this takes energy and work. It might not be a solution for everyone, but if you have means and technical know-how, it's worth doing. Making it easier for everyone is also a worthwhile endeavour. @atomicpoet Absolutely. This won’t solve the discoverability issue though. I’d be interested in reading your thoughts on how to do this efficiently. @atomicpoet Interesting! I'd love to discuss this with you in private. What is your email? @atomicpoet Indeed... I run into "ET" beings occasionally, and research Xenopsychology and associated PSI abilities. It's hardcore woo on my instance, and we all try to remain anonymous for quite obvious reasons. I mean, with all the above being the case, I think anyone joining knows exactly what kind of thing they're trying to get into ;) @atomicpoet How much does it cost to self-host a Mastodon instance? Are there any downsides if only I am using this instance? @gabriel_berardi If you self-host a Pleroma instance, instead of a Mastodon instance, it costs $5/month. @atomicpoet I fully agree that one should be aware of who their true landlord is. But it’s not helpful to just say “host your own instance”. That requires time, money and technical expertise beyond the reach of 99% of citizens. This concept of selecting a server is already a weird/new thing for most people. A more consumer friendly solution might be a public “health label” that reveals location, ownership, admins, etc to encourage consumer education and choice. @kevinpotts I wouldn't go that far. Services like Cloudron make running your own instance super easy. But sure not everyone can do it. If you have the means, do it. @atomicpoet As long as the government doesn't force social media to be interoperable, Mastodon doesn't have much more to offer than Twitter. @atomicpoet Yeah, middle of a land grab. Great thing to read before the morning coffee. --- maybe not. @atomicpoet I’m not well up on the broader Fediverse as yet, but I wonder is an instance required, compelled or just expected to redirect one account to another, should a user find they want to switch instance after a buy-out of this sort? This is another strong case for applying a limited lifespan to toots. I was wondering if this would happen. Instances getting bought out. Yep. It’s already happening. Even better yet, form #Association|s and #PlatformCooperative|s to run #Fediverse instances, and setup instances at already existing associations and #cooperative|s. When establishing a #coop in #Europe, prefer the form of a #EuropeanCooperative (#SCE), and avoid to make your #headquarters in #FRG, because its #CooperativeLaw still contains inhibiting #Nazi regulations from #Y1934. 🌺 🏷️ #Genossenschaft #ICA #InternationalCooperativeAlliance #Introduction #CooperativeEconomics @atomicpoet All the tutorial on self hosting are ignoring that point.  @atomicpoet I think @SDF is strange but in a good way, like me. They are the best kind of strange(rs) I know. @atomicpoet @atomicpoet For everyone who tries to host an instance, I can highly recommend the mastodon docker image of linuxserver.io @atomicpoet So at the risk of being very rude and uninformed as a new mastodon user ... one of the more striking aspects of the ecosystem I've observed is that it doesn't seem that normal to have an easily accessible and very transparent statement as to who the admins of an instance are, how they operate and what their motivations and policies are. Not true across the board obviously, but given the importance of an instance, as this information highlights, I expected more information.  @atomicpoet following instance admins is like half the fun on being here. Ppl who doesnt do that are missing out. "Your social media life in the hands of strangers" is exactly why Mastodon is no better than Twitter for most users. If you're on a "big instance" you're just running an expensive (for the site owners) blog where someone else holds the rope around your neck, just like you had with Twitter. Want to experience the real freedom? Set up your own host. Run your own instance. Own your own data and communications and filters. @atomicpoet@mastodon.social - Landgrab? What the frigging hell. What capitalist expectations with delusions of Mastodon Gold Rush grand gaming fantasy is this speculation?
@atomicpoet Well, I don't have the skills or equipment to host my own instance, so I guess I'll just wait until mine gets bought out, then move, and just keep on moving until there aren't any more left. So I probably won't be doing much to contribute, because I don't know how. But if anyone thought that the corps wouldn't move in and systematically ravage the Fediverse once they noticed it, I think that person must not have been paying attention to what this world is.  @atomicpoet Thank you for a timely warning. Back in the #blogosphere, I wasn't worried about hosting on #WordPress dot com with my own domain because I could export all of my stuff and self-host or move to a different provider. #Mastodon isn't quite as open in that area, because while I can transfer my followers to a new instance, I can't transfer my past posts. Avoiding lock-in is more important than avoiding commercialisation, though it's still good to keep a skeptical eye on the latter. @atomicpoet What percentage of social media users would you estimate are capable of, or interested in running their own server? My guess is a fraction of a percent. @atomicpoet Conveniently it's what, 4 clicks to move servers and keep your follow lists? Will make it hard for corps to keep you walled in if you want to go.  @atomicpoet Self host? Sorry, but I couldn't begin to know how to do that. Or, for that matter, what it would require.  @atomicpoet I'm very happy to be on an instance run by real people I could eventually meet, and populated by ~100 people in my home town. That's worth a few bucks when it comes time to pay some bills. The user experience has some rough spots, but knowing I'm not being actively manipulated into doom-scrolling is wonderful @atomicpoet A couple weeks ago I wondered here if the future of Mastodon was large instances roaming the fediverse like mobile cities in Mortal Engines, gobbling up smaller instances Read through this *long* thread but didn't see the answer - how does one find the admins, etc.? I initially chose awscommunity.social because it aligns with professional work. |
Gregory's Server
@atomicpoet ...and support the people running your #Fediverse instance with a donation.