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Rob Pickering

@atomicpoet Does it matter? If the underlying protocols are architected for federation and easy migration then any instances that go bad won't last long.
I do see a model like SMTP e-mail becoming a thing where technically anyone can federate, but it becomes increasingly hard for non well-resourced players to provide the necessary abuse management to play effectively.

8 comments
Chris Trottier

@rob The instances that have gone bad have lasted for a very long time.

Technology does not replace human moderation.

Rob Pickering

@atomicpoet If the actions of the operators cause users any problems then they are two button presses away from migrating to another instance. The Musk problem couldn't arise here, provided acquirers don't do deeply evil things like defeating the migration mechanism. Someone *will* try it and the community response will define how the ecosystem eventually goes.

Chris Trottier

@rob With all do respect, the Musk problem can not only happen on Mastodon, it has happened.

You might want to look into a few more instances.

Joan Mastodon

@atomicpoet @rob that part!

We often make the mistake of assuming a certain technology or innovation will 'revolutionize' things. But patterns, when true, repeat themselves across all realities. If we apply a growth-based, large-scale, VC framework to the Fedi then the problems on Twitter, Facebook, etc. will repeat themselves here.

The solution is smaller, more local, decentralized communities. In the physical world, comparable to plurinationalism vs. nationalism.

Yeri

@rob @atomicpoet They could easily disable the migration/export data button in their instance and literally lock people in?

G

@rob @atomicpoet you're assuming that users are all aware of and invested in decentralization. Many Twitter migrators might even actively prefer a centralized model and be complicit. If that, or even just sheer ignorance from people seeking "the next thing," hits a critical mass, then no one will need to defeat the migration mechanism. It'll become irrelevant.

Kadsepfösch

@rob @atomicpoet That's a very naive stance. If you think bad things can't happen here, you probably wont be careful or vigilat and then they WILL happen.

Those "two button presses" can just be disabled. The instance can do stuff to attract many users and then just change the protocol step by step.

It's not the first time that would happen. And ignoring that threat won't just make it go away.

Rob Pickering

@Glatorius @atomicpoet I don't believe it is naive at all. The proof point of a functional ecosystem is that it will develop a diverse range of funding options for operators from: "gift to the community", through "Mastodon blue", through to Fb style "we sell all your data". Maybe some innovative stuff involving micropayments to post/read as well, and the web 3.0 folks have something useful to contribute here.

It is practically a certainty in my mind that some instance somewhere will disable aliasing to prevent migrations away when they perceive that is in their narrow short term commercial interests.

There are also, as others have said embrace/extend/extinguish vulnerabilities inherent in any any open protocol.

How other instance operators respond to these things will define how things go long term.

@Glatorius @atomicpoet I don't believe it is naive at all. The proof point of a functional ecosystem is that it will develop a diverse range of funding options for operators from: "gift to the community", through "Mastodon blue", through to Fb style "we sell all your data". Maybe some innovative stuff involving micropayments to post/read as well, and the web 3.0 folks have something useful to contribute here.

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