Gregory's ServerIt’s just been pointed out to me that the reason Apple runs a trade-in programme for older devices is so they can reduce the size of the used market, and has fuck all to do with recycling.
That’s blown my tiny mind.
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Darren
89 comments
Pattern-chaser
@DJDarren I thought they had to be separated into their component parts, metals, plastics, etc, and recycled, or made safe, as appropriate? Reclaim the gold, and so forth?
NL
@PatternChaser @DJDarren 
Inken Paper
@DJDarren confirming what i already thought of Apple. it's not a computer company, it's a garbage company. they just keep producing literal tons of garbage.
Darren
@crashglasshouses I mean, by that token so are all the other tech firms. Almost all the companies are now making products that can’t be repaired and are only fit for the shredder.
Marty Fouts
@DJDarren Apple’s trade in prices are enough below market that the effect on second hand supply is negligible. Most of the devices that they destroy are either not repairable or models that are no longer supported. They should do a better job of removing and recovering material but they are not trying to reduce resale.
Darren
@MartyFouts The price they offer is lower than market value, but high enough that not having to deal with Facebook Marketplace is an attractive proposition. I know because this has been me in the past.
Thomas =:-)
@DJDarren well, shredding electronic devices is the first step to recycling. The next steps are chemical, not mechanical.
Darren
@crazydutchy The fewer used devices there are out there, the more they can justify charging what they do for new ones. If there were millions of repairable older iPhones, people would be less likely to buy a new one.
The Essence of Woerm Sin
Sure, but there are people who buy the latest phone as soon as it's out, and there are people who'd happily buy their used last-gen model. If the former use this programme instead of putting it on eBay or similar that's a sale Apple might not lose.
madopal
@DJDarren @crazydutchy Until they do the same thing they do with their computers: refuse to give older models updates anymore. That's the evil twin of this program. 
GeofCox
Not sure if you're question is ironic - but I'll answer it anyway: a vibrant secondhand market reduces new sales.
GeofCox
I read recently that secondhand clothes now account for over 10% of the fashion market in France, and I was in a retro shop on Saturday that was buzzing - with lots of young people that were pretty obviously not short of money. Re-use, recycle, etc, is catching on, and I guess many manufacturers are worried by it.
MarkS
@crazydutchy @GeofCox @DJDarren Some companies do more than worry. Apple, it sounds like, has found a way to reduce the second-hand market by destroying scads of devices. I'd say it was clever if it wasn't so evil.
Monique
@markstahl @GeofCox @DJDarren Hmm, yeah, they probably find themselves clever... But you are right, it's bad.
Plasmawiz
@GeofCox @crazydutchy @DJDarren A lot of the best quality articles of clothing I own are second-hand.
Monique
@plasmawiz @GeofCox @DJDarren I don't have any second hand clothing, that does not mean I have wasted a lot of money on clothing to begin with. And I wear it until it's worn out, after which I put it in one of those bags where it does get recycled, or given to people who can't afford to buy clothing.
Monique
@GeofCox @plasmawiz @DJDarren I am really not into the latest fashion, I gave that up years ago. But who knows what I might do in the future. Never say never is my motto.
Plasmawiz
@GeofCox @crazydutchy @DJDarren I like to buy slightly oversized coats and jackets, and then tailor them to fit nicely. I like older style clothing and it is always a good project.
Plasmawiz
@GeofCox @crazydutchy @DJDarren Both the destruction of physical product and the increased locking of media to proprietary platforms are obvious attempts to kill the second-hand market for future generations :blob_sweat: 
Hypolite Petovan
@GeofCox @crazydutchy @DJDarren I would guess that's just wishful thinking, though, I believe secondhand markets and firsthand markets are almost exclusive of each other. Meaning if you actively contract the former, the latter won't grow as much or at all. it's the same principle with digital "piracy". People wouldn't buy much more if piracy was actually impossible.
Tonya Canning
@crazydutchy @DJDarren
Monique
@TonyaCanning @DJDarren I guess new shiny phones are a factor for quite a few people. Because I don't think that way, I did not consider that.
EVDYHMN(Derek)
@crazydutchy @DJDarren 
Radio Resistance
@DJDarren yeah, i assumed it was some sort of control thing. they get some stats for press releases and sec filings for their "recycling" efforts, but yeah ... they don't give af. 
Patrick
I thought that was exactly what the luxury car dealers also were doing. Aggressively controlling the prices and sales of used vehicles with their trade in schemes. Same thing for auto trader websites.
Darren
@baoigheallain In my experience it’s just high enough to feel worthwhile to not have to deal with the barely-functioning idiots of Facebook Marketplace. @GeofCox
Michael
@DJDarren @GeofCox Although I did manage to sell a 2007 iMac for reasonable money on Nextdoor (before I was banned for not using my real name, because anti-cyclists got fed up with my pro cycling posts and reported me. I am learning to live with that loss). I sold it more as a convenient method of recycling it rather than income, but I was pleasant surprised. It went within 24 hours and for more than any of the listing on the ‘Bay.
Darren
@baoigheallain Last year I listed my maxed-out 2015 15” Macbook Pro on Facebook. After reporting vast swathes of bots and scammers for three weeks straight, I ended up selling it to a mate at work. @GeofCox
LillyLyle/Count Melancholia
@DJDarren I always suspected this. They must hate me. I've never personally purchased a new Apple product, always refurbed or second hand, or my employer has kitted me out.
Darren
Further to this, as I get older and (hopefully) more wise to the world, one of the things that’s really hit me is how everything has a price. Everything. In this situation, Apple has decided that it’s worth them giving someone a £150 discount on a new phone in order to guarantee that they’ll make more money selling newer phones. As someone who never really thinks about economy, it’s amazing to me that people’s brains work that way on an industrial scale.
Darren
@ItsThatDeafGuy Of course, that’s the other thing, isn’t it? Like, we bought a new TV a couple of weeks back. LG are able to pump out a 60” 4K UHD screen that Argos can sell on finance for £400. So what of our data is LG able to sell in order to subsidise the cost of the screen? And what of my data are Argos able to flog in order to offer me an interest free loan for a year?
𝚃𝚑𝚊𝚝 𝙳𝚎𝚊𝚏 𝙶𝚞𝚢
@DJDarren our next TV is probably going to be a high def computer monitor linked to a locked down computer box.
Darren
@ItsThatDeafGuy We pondered that, and I looked about. Trouble is, computer monitors at the price we could go to top out around 30”. Ours is 60”. We use Apple TV for 99% of our TV use though, so can’t imagine our data is worth all that much to LG. 
crazyeddie
@ItsThatDeafGuy @DJDarren I was just looking and they are incredibly expensive. An alternative might be to simply not allow the tv to connect to the internet and use your locked down box. This isn't entirely possible with at least Roku TV's as they won't function at all until you log in at least once. My google TV I've never logged in and was working with my PS4 before I had Internet so that should work. Don't know about new LG. 
Rob Vincent 🎙️
@DJDarren @ItsThatDeafGuy A lot of the subsidizing is done by the makers of the TV's OS (e.g. Roku) selling a steady stream of ads to direct at you on your home screen, and the "shovelware" smart-TV apps for all sorts of channels and services which come preinstalled/pushed by the TV's app store and stuck in front of you because their makers paid Roku/LG/etc. for the privilege of punching you in the eyes until money comes out.
Darren
@Rob_T_Firefly Which is a massive part of why I use Apple TV. Yes, Apple have their problems (the root of this thread being an enormous one), but save for the ATV+ app, tvOS never shoves ads in my face. @ItsThatDeafGuy 
Stu
@ajsadauskas @DJDarren It boggles my mind how this company maintains its squeaky clean image for so many people.
Brad Romance
@DJDarren I can’t honestly believe people use Apple’s programme though, last time I checked you get way more selling your device than they give you for trade-in.
J.Sʜᴀʀᴘ🌍🇺🇦Fʀᴇᴇᴅᴏᴍ&Dᴇᴍᴏᴄʀᴀᴄʏ
I'm not surprised in the slightest. Corporations will kill this planet, then they'll blame the consumer: "you made us do it with your demands on our business - we had no choice" It'll never be their fault - ever.
the hatter
@DJDarren it certainly does them no harm in that respect. But the prices they offer for trade-in are so low, that if the current owner wanted to sell it on, they'd easily get more money taking it a few doors along to any second hand electronics shop. More it reduces the amount of spare/backup devices buyers have to rely on. Buy a phone 2 years ago, trade it in today for a new model, and when you break this one next week, you've no longer got a spare to limp along with while considering options.
Francisco Tolmasky
@DJDarren Not just the used market, but spare parts too. They force recyclers to shred phones too. 
Kotaro
@DJDarren@mendeddrum.org Well, it is good that they are responsible for the distribution of their products, even if for economic profit purposes.
Linux Walt (@lnxw37j1) {3EB165E0-5BB1-45D2-9E7D-93B31821F864}
@clacke I know that government devices require shredding to prevent some previously unknown recovery technique from extracting government information. I don't know whether this is why.
Phil Haigh
@DJDarren Their trade in prices aren’t even that competitive. I’ve never been persuaded to trade in, always sold on eBay for a significantly better return.   
gif in displayname :bop_cat:
@DJDarren how do the trade-in prices compare to what a random consumer would pay? it seems like they would have to offer a high trade-in to be able to put a major dent in the secondary market. which then means they are making a lot less on each sale if you factor that cost in. 
Timothy Jasionowski
@DJDarren That explains why I’m not constantly bombarded by opportunities to buy older, refurbished, or used iPhones, iPads, MacBooks, etc. from practically everywhere… oh wait. I absolutely am. Spend any time in the developing world and you’d be amazed how many phones have a second or third life.
Kevin Karhan
@DJDarren OFC - just like #iCloudLock has nothing to do with #theft of #Apple devices but solely with #AssetDenial against #Refurbishers... 
JacobRPG+ 🫘
@DJDarren I believe this to be a common practice among luxury brands. Unfortunate, as it is.
Greg Kochanski
@DJDarren It may also reduce the cost of maintaining many different versions of the software.  |
According to this article, they shred literal tons of devices, regardless of whether they’re serviceable. Just yoink the battery and shred the rest.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-04-18/apple-iphone-recycling-program-has-secrets?embedded-checkout=true