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Oliphant

With the advent of FediCheck, there will be big changes to the Oliphant blocklists in the future.

I've always said the list project I'm doing is an "interim step on the road to something better."

FediCheck is the "something better", at least so far as what I can contribute.

In particular, it will let an admin subscribe to a list and push blocks to their server and also--importantly--it natively handles retractions. This has been, by far, one of the hardest problems to solve for any blocklist maintainer.

So--good news--it can also remove blocks from your server, so long as it added those blocks to your server in the first place.

Additionally, FediCheck has an element of human review in the blocklist process, ensuring that every domain on the list isn't going to show up by "surprise" and will be vetted by real humans at IFTAS before being approved and released as a block to get pushed to other servers.

While I don't want to completely archive the repo (though some have recommended as much), for those who might have scripted pulls to the .csv files created, I am planning to change the repo to become a blocklist aggregator--or specifically that is to say, I'll be aggregating other people's lists, I will no longer be making my own.

The Unified Tier 0 Oliphant List is very close to that today:

It's a list that combines Seirdy's Tier 0, Gardenfence, and my 'council' (80% consensus) into a 'unified' tier 0, and I think that's the most popular list of all.

So the idea is to combine Seirdy's Tier 0, Gardenfence, and the IFTAS DNI list together into a single 'unified tier 0' or 'min' file--

And then delete every other file and algorithm from the repo.

Yes, that means getting rid of Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 3, all council sources, and using the blog entries that currently are up there to help direct people to other blocklist projects.

While I greatly appreciate the work of the 'council' thus far, they are already involved in other projects and I don't have the connection to the various parties involved like I used to. Rather than have the list slowly become less and less useful because I'm unable to get more contributors, I think I should instead migrate the list to a more honest interim state--an aggregator of other people's blocklists.

I realize this might upset some of you, and I apologize for that. You should still be able to use the Tier 0 Oliphant list and get a respectable list of blocks, though you'll notice certain more contentious entries like qoto and threads won't be on that list anymore...just a natural consequence of losing the 80% consensus 'council' list as a contributor.

If you don't want to seek out other blocklist projects, and simply want a single unified list that combines all of those blocklist sources into one? That will be the new Oliphant list.

And if you want to build a list yourself, I've got detailed instructions on how to generate consensus blocklists using Fediblockhole.

As of right now:

- All automated updates of the Oliphant blocklists are paused until I make the necessary changes to remove the 'council' sources and trim down the list of available files for download
- All automated pushes I've been doing to remote servers have ceased. This is in preparation for the release of FediCheck, which will allow for a much simpler subscription process going forward.

If you have any questions about this, come see me. I'll have a larger blog post about this later, but I wanted to let the larger fedi know about this before I proceed.

Stay tuned, and the most sincerest of thanks to everyone who has contributed to this project thus far.

#Oliphant #blocklist

With the advent of FediCheck, there will be big changes to the Oliphant blocklists in the future.

I've always said the list project I'm doing is an "interim step on the road to something better."

FediCheck is the "something better", at least so far as what I can contribute.

In particular, it will let an admin subscribe to a list and push blocks to their server and also--importantly--it natively handles retractions. This has been, by far, one of the hardest problems to solve for any blocklist maintainer.

pixelfed

@oliphant We are working to add support for FediCheck to Pixelfed!

Great work to all involved!

Oliphant

Maybe read a retrospective from someone who built a search tool for the fedi (now closed down).

searchtodon.social/Adventures-

Oliphant

Like we literally had this argument already.

We've been having this argument.

See here for how often this happens.

Oliphant

There's not as much money in this space as you think there is.

Like the reason the features you expect don't exist is that a venture capitalist isn't paying for them and funding the salaries of hundreds of engineers, and thus real people (many with a full time paying job) are building those things. Because they want to build them, not because it's their job.

They can say "No, I don't want to work on that" and no one can fire them--because they aren't even getting paid.

Ease up on the entitlement.

If you want a free space that we control, help fund it, help build it, or adjust your expectations accordingly.

There's not as much money in this space as you think there is.

Like the reason the features you expect don't exist is that a venture capitalist isn't paying for them and funding the salaries of hundreds of engineers, and thus real people (many with a full time paying job) are building those things. Because they want to build them, not because it's their job.

Oliphant

As I've said before, it "hits different" when someone complains about a lack of features in "this place" when the meaning of "this place" is extremely subjective depending on (but not limited to):

A: The server you're on
B: Who you follow (your 'feed')

and when you also importantly realize

C: No one is paying for this shit

Okay, people are paying a little for this. But no one is getting rich off of their work for the fediverse.

At this point, I'm increasingly thinking my hope to be employed fulltime building stuff for the fedi is a pipedream--and that I might be taking up income better directed at minorities who aren't white dudes with a corporate job waiting for them a phone call away.

But I'm trying to see if I can make this work, but I'm going to have to hustle at a level never hustled before if I want to make that happen--and I probably can't.

In the end, what will most likely happen, for me, is that I go back to work at a 9-5 remote job and I code for a salary and get my health insurance (a critical concern for Americans).... and then write code for this space "on the side", little by little. When I have time and feel like coding more than 35 hours in a week.

That's literally the dilemma for a lot of people, and a lot of people don't have the spoons/desire to work a second fulltime job doing the same work they are doing in their primary fulltime job.

Like you have to love coding to do that. And I don't think it's sustainable.

More thoughts later.

As I've said before, it "hits different" when someone complains about a lack of features in "this place" when the meaning of "this place" is extremely subjective depending on (but not limited to):

A: The server you're on
B: Who you follow (your 'feed')

and when you also importantly realize

C: No one is paying for this shit

Dana Fried

@oliphant

I see and acknowledge your subtoot.

In my defense, I was not intending to call anyone out; it was more of a "it seems weird this is missing is someone working on this?"

My expectation (which was correct) was that I would get multiple replies of "oh fork X and client Y already do this", and/or (also correct) "it's on the roadmap; here's roughly when to expect it".

(Also while I understand it's only a small amount of money, I am one of the people who *does* pay for this website.)

Doug

@oliphant
I think when there's a huge outcry for privacy, reporting, mod tools and accessibility, but we get search and "discoverability", the criticism will continue to ring quite loudly.

Oliphant

Sorry, fedi, Americans are gonna be kinda insufferable for a few days because our former President just got legit charged by the US government with trying to do a coup and we're going to be wrestling with the concept that this is actually happening for a few days.

Oliphant

I think we were somewhat justified in this assumption since this does not happen to rich people and it certainly does not happen literally ever to Presidents.

Oliphant

Once had a quick conversation with a Libertarian who apparently thought, "But who would build the roads?" is the funniest question.

They all laugh about it.

"Duh, before governments people built roads all the time."

Yeah, paved deer tracks and toll roads run by profiteers?

But my question is, what if there's a toll road that costs $5000 to cross it?

*smug Libertarian looks at one another* "Well, that's called competition someone else just builds another road and charges $3000 instead."

Oh, yes, hmm, indeed, truly you have an enlightened political philosophy ready to run the world. Let me see if I get this straight.

My option, when crossing through your mountain road through the only available mountain pass if I can't afford to pay--is to wait for someone to--what? Hollow out a fucking mountain?

And my reward waiting for all of this blasting and drilling and infrastructure is someone with a road that costs $3000 to pass?

And if I don't like that...what? Are we tunneling under the earth now, or are we just deciding we're not allowed on the other side of that fucking mountain?

Go back to school, put your crayons away, and get back to me with smug jokes when you've put more than five seconds of thought into your "political philosophy."

You just don't want to care about other people or acknowledge they exist, and you still want to keep profiting off of their desperation, and you've somehow invented something even worse than our current disaster; so you can go eat your ass ear-first.

Once had a quick conversation with a Libertarian who apparently thought, "But who would build the roads?" is the funniest question.

They all laugh about it.

"Duh, before governments people built roads all the time."

Yeah, paved deer tracks and toll roads run by profiteers?

But my question is, what if there's a toll road that costs $5000 to cross it?

Show previous comments
Sean

@oliphant If that Libertarian paid attention to history they’d know literal wars have occurred over that hypothetical. Like it’s so common there are children’s fables about that exact thing.

Geo

@oliphant Roads before government? I'm sure archaeologists would be interested in that insight, considering how early certain forms of governments have arisen in human history.
Also, #geography is truly the enemy of any Libertarian, it seems: It just does not fit into their world that topographical space can not be produced.
Oh, and also: I doubt this world of him would have any currency. The US dollar is government-issued, after all.

Jeremy in the blue house.

@oliphant q: how many libertarians does it take to stop a panzer division?
A: none, the free market will take care of it!

Oliphant

I follow a lot of admins.

We don’t always agree, but I respect what you do.

And I’m not on the team that does “third party” blocks. By which I mean, “You don’t block X so I’m blocking you.” Though sometimes this is an additional factor.

There are user safety reasons why other admins might choose differently.

Suffice it to say, people start up servers for different reasons. So ultimately you need to find an admin you align with, and that’s your ideal server.

Oliphant

There's a lot of work to do, I don't mean to wave my hands and say there isn't.

However, this article explains the mechanism of how server defederations and consequences work.

Oliphant

There are some people on the fedi that it's like...every day is a battle in their mentions.

And there's a part--a very small part--of me that wants to say, "What are you doing to invite that?"

And another small part of me (of which I am not proud) adds, "It's not like I've ever experienced that. Certainly not to that degree."

And then it dawns on me: This is whiteness talking. Of course I haven't experienced it. The people in question are a black man and a trans woman.

I talk all this shit, and only rarely get someone in my mentions wanting to fight about it.

Now that's some privilege.

There are some people on the fedi that it's like...every day is a battle in their mentions.

And there's a part--a very small part--of me that wants to say, "What are you doing to invite that?"

And another small part of me (of which I am not proud) adds, "It's not like I've ever experienced that. Certainly not to that degree."

Oliphant

I also post nearly everything Unlisted, which I posit limits the "showing up in everyone's Federated feed" factor.

Which may account for some of that.

But that's just an additional theory, whiteness/patriarchy more than adequately explains it on its own.

Oliphant

The path of least resistance states that some big company owning social media isn't a problem, until it is.

If things seem competently run, you'll give them a shot, start posting, entering a bunch of personal data, tell your friends.

I think it will be harder to convince people to do that going forward. We've had a sort of 'social media reset' the past 6 months or so, and if anything, it seems to be accelerating (as all the big platforms start doubling down on really bad ideas.)

Ultimately the web is transient, and stuff can change over time, and a site that was once trusted can lose that trust.

Better, I think, to exist on a platform where no one owns you, your data is exportable (and importable, some places) and your follow graph can move with you.

You get to watch flameouts and personalities and bad admins in realtime here, too, lots more of them than just one.

But you're ultimately not beholden to any of that. You can move until you find your people, and your followers come with you.

That's just not a thing anywhere else.

The path of least resistance states that some big company owning social media isn't a problem, until it is.

If things seem competently run, you'll give them a shot, start posting, entering a bunch of personal data, tell your friends.

I think it will be harder to convince people to do that going forward. We've had a sort of 'social media reset' the past 6 months or so, and if anything, it seems to be accelerating (as all the big platforms start doubling down on really bad ideas.)

Show previous comments
Radu

@oliphant fair but…
People are addicted to numbers, to the feeling of getting however many likes, to the dream of “making it”, selling yourself, becoming an influencer. Looking around, people are addicted… it has become so that the whole reason of going to an event is to post it somewhere. And the saddest part and the paradox is: the majority of them won’t leave until the majority is somewhere else…
Gee I hope I’m wrong!

Mark Zimmerman

@oliphant This is why I really don't see Hive scaling well. It was a project from someone really passionate about the work that she was doing, but she seems to want to make something closer to a Twitter competitor than something newer and with more ownership.

No hate to Raluca Pop, but I think apps like that have a short shelf-life unless a clear line of succession and upgrades to the backend can scale with user growth.

Oliphant

Since it's CPAC day and it's basically a massive propaganda media blitz by the fascists, I just want to point out something else.

Your relatives and friends, the ones who support this shit, they are not delusional. They are not good folk who mean well.

They know *exactly* what they are getting, and they hope politeness and the desire for "dialogue" will prevent them from being called out for their horrible beliefs.

While they are free to pull the lever for the KKK.

Don't allow that shit.

Oliphant

We are in this place because we've all been the "bigger person."

We've been the polite one at the table while racist uncle makes everyone uncomfortable.

Problem is: Racist uncle should have been running scared with that kind of talk a long time ago.

Racist uncle should not be invited to the table at all.

Same energy inviting a bigoted fascist who tried to overthrow the country to stay in power as a featured speaker at CPAC.

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