@jameschip Right??!

I used to think this sort of workaholic attitude was normal. By now, I find it downright scary.

These people don’t just make their own lives hell. They also mess things up for everyone else:

Partly by setting impossible standards for presence (not performance); and partly because they tend to take decisions that make a sailor on shore leave look like a model of rationality.

@jameschip If an employer thinks the commute is such a valuable use of time, they can pay workers for that time.

Weirdly, that never seems to happen. Can't think why.

@jameschip Yikes. I would imagine that person's going to drive straight into a major case of burnout in 5 years or so with that attitude.

@jameschip @UnconventionalEmma Don’t they get that they are not being productive either on their commute, and they just arrive at the office tired and annoyed?

@jameschip One day, they'll learn that the boot will never lick them back.

@jameschip What are the chances that person can't work from home, hence the bitterness?

When the lockdowns happened, I was working in a job that had to be done on site - I could hardly bring railway wagons home to weld them up - but I didn't begrudge those who had to work from home in the slightest. But some of the guys I work with were real pissy about it. "If I can't, why should they?" kinda vibes.

@jameschip
For some people, any time not spent being ‘productive’ & making money is considered wasted.
Was she thinking that the 90 min commute is paid for by the employer?

@jameschip years of capitalistic brainwashing.

@jameschip unbelievable, fucking hell.. what a cruel person

@jameschip@merveilles.town capitalist brainworms my beloved

@jameschip This seems like a person for whom the fact that they were born into an existence whose only purpose is to work is for some reason not utterly abhorrent.

@jameschip @stufromoz I worked from home for 7 years pre-Covid and chose to return to the office. There are definite pros and cons and some form of hybrid works best for me personally. But there are definitely weeks where 100% home works, and vice versa.

@jameschip@merveilles.town

What this person is essentially saying is that spending 90 minutes on having a nice breakfast is a waste of time, but driving 90 minutes to/from work is productive somehow? What ​:neofox_what:​

@jameschip I feel like I can say I relate regarding the feelings and the disbelief about a different subject, in a conversation (in which I was trapped) with a person saying they would rather "die while living by the standards afforded by Our Advanced Civilisation" then apply some ecological measures. as you said, plain broken

@jameschip
There spoke a person with zero experience of working from home.
I'd get up, check emails, deal with anything urgent.
Have a shower, breakfast, walk the dogs.
I'd still be online before the time I'd have made it into the office. Which, to be fair, has it uses.
As far as I'm concerned, the person thinking I spent time having a leisurely breakfast can shut the fuck up, and fuck the fuck off. She has no idea. Not a fucking Scoobies.

@jameschip The cult of economy, right there.

@jameschip that's a prime example of the "I'm dead inside so you must be too" mentality and it's just sad

@jameschip Ewww. Sounds like Hustle Culture.

@jameschip God forbid people have time to cook, play with the kids, exercise, read, study, have a hobby, or just get enough damn sleep. Can't have that!

@jameschip @johnefrancis

@jameschip Must have been an executive who believes other people only exist to enrich him. The world view of the 1%.

@jameschip saw an interview with a person involved with ‘no benefits for more than two children’ rule. She was asked ‘what about parents who are looking after more children through no fault of their own, death of spouse for example?’ She said ‘we didn’t mean them’. As if they didn’t suffer because they weren’t the target or something. I couldn’t understand it.

@jameschip I work from home 80% of the month. These literally are productive things. 🙄 This is so annoying holy shit.

@jameschip

Imagine forgetting that employees have physical bodies that need food and rest.

(Then again, these people tend to not understand that machines or buildings or plumbing also need care and maintenance.)

@jameschip tell me you read LinkedIn recreationally without telling me

@FreakyFwoof @jameschip Also 90 minutes of nice meals can translate into happier, healthy life, more productivity. Also you don't contribute to global warming by wasting energy driving for 90 minutes.

@jameschip oh Lordy I just use the time to do more work. I wish I had time for a leisurely breakfast & gourmet dinner or to go and work in my garden. We’re busier than ever before.

@jameschip if you told this person that such a mindset is warped beyond comprehension from internalized capitalism, will that get you reported to HR?

@jameschip @vicgrinberg haha, a couple of years ago, Google tried to hire me. Of course, that was before CoViD and they were still mandating in office work. In office here means Hamburg, a just under 70km commute one way into the heart of the city, so with the thickest traffic. That would be a good 90 minutes on average, depending on traffic it can easily be 50% more.
So I asked them if they would pay me ~40% extra to compensate me for my time spent commuting. They didn't get the point.

@jameschip It really is remarkable how brainwashed some people sound.

But even in a world where work is the ONLY thing a person values...they're still stupid.

Okay, you spend 90 minutes less time per day, that translates to a 20% raise...so does a company want to give their workers a 20% raise?

Or is this person worried that they will spend all that money on nice things like breakfast.

@jameschip I work hybrid and when I talk to my coworkers these are literally the two most likely examples I give of what I do with my non-commute time.

@jameschip @vidar 😂

@jameschip Have been working from home almost 5 years now. Had kids in the meantime. If I were to work the hours that I do now, with an added 1 hour travel time each way, I'd barely see my kids. Maybe an hour or so after dinner before they gotta go to bed.
What an utter waste of time, to sit in a car probably.

@jameschip @jd

Anyone that is not a climate change denier & genuinely wants to mitigate climate change will be for home working, at least in principle.

FYI, as l recall, #ElonMusk is against home working #twitter employee's.

Climate deniers & insincere peoples rhetoric should never be taken at face value (because they're often two faced. I.e., deceitful)

@jameschip I hate it here, and deep down inside, so does she

@jameschip @DeclanStIrish https://youtube.com/shorts/9n5JT0dcnFc?feature=share

@jameschip
They want so desperately to pretend nothing has changed since 2019, and they want you to pretend it too. We've all been through this gigantic trauma and upheaval, and the reality of it is too much for some people to endure.

@jameschip Lunch is for wimps…. Gordon Gecko

@jameschip That's horrible, disgusting even! As if all those things don't add to a quality of life. I think if I'd been there in person I'd have been hard pressed not to just walk out.

@jameschip By that logic people who live closer to the office should work longer hours.

@jameschip
We weren’t put on this earth just to be productive. Anyone who believes that we are has fully succumbed to the Stockholm Syndrome that the wealthy have inflicted.

@jameschip What are the odds the 'pro commute' person is paid by a right wing think tank to defend the indefensible 'pro business' at every turn. They don't have to believe in anything, it helps if they don't and they're an amoral blank slate whose who can vomit talking points about workers being selfish, ungrateful and lazy.

@jameschip It's a complete scam that we haven't been compensated for commute time. WFH saved my sanity and improved my quality of life dramatically. I got to be me in those saved hours.

@jameschip I remember when I started a job years ago with an hour commute each way. "Cool" I thought, "I like driving, that sounds right up my alley."

Quickly learnt that it was in fact not cool. And fuck that entirely. I'd rather be eating brekky.

@jameschip
Being 'economically productive' is all that matters in Tory England. They claim it's good for the nation, but we all know it's intended to make the rich richer while ordinary people remain trapped in debt. I choose a leisurely breakfast. And a nicer evening meal.

@jameschip

Those bosses are out of touch.

People end up working less hours in the office when they have long commutes because they leave early to avoid being struck in the afternoon rush hour.

The office hours end up being 8 to noon (lunch time) then 1 to 3:30 pm. to avoid rush hours. People wander around the office during the time they are there checking in with coworkers, getting things from the shared printer, having silly meetings, getting interrupted by people stopping by, etc.

@jameschip all capitalists in finland are exactly like this 🙄

@jameschip @thegibson There is a saying that goes something like "Fuck you, I got mine" that explains some of the brain damage here, the rest is probably something like Stockholm syndrome.

@jameschip heard it too, how disconnected can one be to suggest the commute time saved ought to be turned into productivity...soulless fuck

@jameschip Setting aside everything else for a second... It's not like the 90 minute commute is productive either, so at worst isn't working from home neutral if hours worked is the only measure?

Unless the commute is something like a spacious train where the commuter works on a laptop as they go, I guess?

@jameschip And the presenter asked “Who hurt you?” right? Right?

@jameschip@merveilles.town looks like someone has yet to discover their masochistic side.

@jameschip Doesn't this depend on the 'product' part of 'productivity'. What are we trying to produce? Perhaps we should produce lots of things of #value. Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts. What do we #value ?

@jameschip did nobody tell her that jobs have set hours most of the time and that it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the employer?

@jameschip Let's go in the opposite direction: Instead of working 90 minutes longer (probably for the same pay), let's do more 4 day work weeks. If you get 100% of your work done in 80% (4 days) of time, then you get 100% of your pay. This is a much better incentive than 'do the same work in 90 more minutes'.

@jameschip That's depressing as hell to read.

The upside, though, is that most countries don't seem to have the all-consuming approach to work that we have here in the US.

@jameschip The problem I run into with WFH is that time saved not commuting is vastly overrun by the increased latency in collaboration with other members on the team.

What would take a minute or so to walk over to someone’s desk to get a question answered can easily take an hour.

@jameschip@merveilles.town I had someone argue that we need autonomous personal cars so that people can answer their email while they commute. For those who want, we already have that and it’s called bus/tram. But hell no, I enjoy commuting up to 30 minutes as a cut between work and home but certainly not as more available unpaid time to exploit.

@jameschip
@FireyRoxy
Pretty much spoon fed by folk like Rees-Mogg, who put notes on civil servants desks, but also felt that fellow MPs who were absent from parliament shouldn't be subject to the same scrutiny. Also, Alan Sugar, who called home workers lazy, while he was sunning himself from his Florida mansion. They just try to stir a pot of accusations of laziness amongst folk who should stick together, rather than fall for their bile.

@jameschip
I'm going to hazard a guess that she uses mass transit and assumes that luxury is available everywhere.

@jameschip wheelbarrow, full of cash

@jameschip Broken, indeed!

@jameschip with closed roads, diversions, traffic and a puncture, my usual 2 hour drive into the office turned into a 5 hour slog.

I should’ve just turned around about 45 minutes in, but sunk cost fallacy got me.

@jameschip I mean for some people though it does in fact translate to more productivity, but also so does less stress? FFS.

@jameschip

@jameschip I'm mainly working from home and I've been doing this for almost 15 years. I can have my breakfast and start working full of energy, without having to rush out and get to the office already tired.

@jameschip They are probably paid by a corporation to say those things. No one believes preparing a nicer meal is less valuable than 'being productive' for a corporation---except the corporation.

@jameschip The commute should count and be paid as work, and all the means of transportation should be paid by the employer. It IS part of the work, and you do it, because your employer wants you to be there. His order, his payment.

@jameschip the kind of person who wants to be a CEO

@jameschip It’s the position that people are things to be used and for me is the definition of evil.

@jameschip
I commuted to Town from Haywards Heath for 11 years.
For the first 3 years it was straight into London Victoria, and, both ways, daily total was 3 hours.
But then the office was moved to Old Street, EC1, involving an extra 45 minutes to cross London, meaning the daily travelling time was 4.5 hours.
Never more glad when that ceased in 1997!

@jameschip

Brain washing of the insecure by corps

@jameschip Thank you. Just thank you.

@jameschip Aren’t radio shows very, very often done from home studios and with interviews by telephone from people’s homes, and hasn’t it been that way since long, long, long before the pandemic?

(Answer: yes)

@jameschip

Jim Watson (of Watson Crick) was, for a while, director of the Cold Spring Harbor laboratory, and under him it was a real science power house.

One day, the PhDs decided to have a contest to see who could work the most hours in a week; the "winner" had an improbable but mathematically possible 140 hours

@jameschip HOW IS THAT NOT PRODUCTIVE???

@jameschip We don't get paid for our commute, so why should those 90 minutes go to work?! That's some very broken "logic" there.

@jameschip The fact that this person was arguing such a position on the radio hints that they might be a professional parasite of the chattering classes. Lots of these under capitalism. Five bucks says she’s receiving wingnut welfare.

@jameschip madness, man. Anti-human.

@jameschip There's a fundamental belief that human beings live only to play their economic role. It's possible this person is a hypocrite, but I've met enough people who sincerely believe it, who really have no life or sense of identity outside their job.

@jameschip @dabeaz obviously being productive is much more important than being happy. 🙄

@jameschip Hahahaha!! No kidding! It's straight quality of life improvement.

@jameschip capitalismo baby!

@jscholes @jameschip Good thing they don't. Work-life balance is so very important!

@jameschip The productivity god demands more.

@jameschip @zekjur That’s cursed. But I actually argue similarly for commuting to the office. The two hours in the train are time for my self-care in a way: it’s quality alone time for reading, podcasts, music (listening and producing), meditation etc… When I work from home my experience is I rather waste them (not with nice things though, but either with more work or with doomscrolling). People tend to ask me if I work during the commute, and are surprised when I tell them I try to avoid it.

@jameschip
She obviously wasn't there to argue for what would benefit the worker. Perhaps it's a point of view completely alien to the interests she was there to represent.

Equally obviously she wasn't aware of herself being like that, or she'd not have said the quiet part so loudly.

@jameschip
Well, if she makes her living on other people work, it's easier to understand.

@jameschip

Quelle horreur!!

@jameschip
Heaven forbid you should spend time doing a nice thing that doesn't count as being productive to a stranger.

@jameschip that perspective supports the belief that time spent commuting is work activity and should be compensated by employers, a position the the speaker would surely reject.

@jameschip @chris

To which I’d have to respond, “You do you. I’m going to sleep a little longer and make myself some breakfast.” See how that works? I’ll do what makes me happy and if a 90-min commute lights your fire, well… you need therapy.

@jameschip

Leisure is only for her kind. If you have what she has then she's not special and important anymore. 🙃

@jameschip yo, pay me for my commute time then!

@jameschip
Sick people.

I've swapped 2+h commute for 1h on a bike, getting exercise and fresh air, on those days I can avoid going in. Significant benefits in both health and productivity!

@jameschip the sad thing is I still have some of that attitude internalized. I have to consciously talk myself away from that point of view regularly.

@jameschip I know enough of these people arguing that instead of 8 hours office plus 2 hours commute you could work 10 hours instead... Of course that's nonsense. But US work culture is often broken on many levels.

@jameschip I share the gains for WFH.

I get more leisure time, and my employer gets more hours. Also, because I start work feeling happy and creative rather than tired, morose, and dispirited from a 90 minute commute, my work is faster and better.
WFO is an outdated default, and it is foolish to cling to it just for the sake of habit