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Paul Chambers

@david @HistoPol @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @volkris

I am self-hosted but have several dedicated accounts, including @hashtaggames where I play one game per night. We interact with several hundred users nightly from over 50 instances.

I made the mistake of following people that follow that account, which is solely dedicated to the game.

As a result, my instance data ballooned to over 50GB. I had to trim how long I retain data. Still at 30GB.

66 comments
David Boles

@paul @HistoPol @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @volkris @hashtaggames

Ouch! That's another thing users who are not Admins, and who never pay, don't realize: Your stuff isn't saved forever here! There's a time limit and then it's gone forever.

Unless you what -- bookmark or favorite a post -- then it doesn't get deleted? I can't remember.

David Boles

@HistoPol @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @volkris @hashtaggames

The sad part is you can export your instance data, but not upload it into a new instance. Insane!

Paul Chambers

@david @HistoPol

I read that is something they are working on. Not sure how advanced it is or how it will play out but it is being discussed, at least.

David Boles

@paul @HistoPol

I'm on the Mastodon Discord server, I should ask.

HistoPol (#HP)

@david @paul

Please do. Actually, for me this would have been a dealbreaker to join #mas

I often put a lot of work in #threads and like to link back to them occasionally.
The instance issue being what it is, having a #migrate option for your toots is essential for me.

To hands in business suits shaking hands, the picture torn apart in the middle.

"Dealbreaker:
A specific issue or thing that will cause an agreement, deal, or relationship to fail or be terminated."
DELETED

@paul @david @HistoPol Meta isn't doing so well these days...SO they're going the old school Microsoft route of Embrace, Extend & Extinguish. Be wary. Hopefully they decide to play nice, but I suspect it's more subversion than anything. Jack Dorsey had plans like that too. I HOPE it leads to a real expansion of the fediverse, BUT I suspect this is a ploy to end it. Future Money incentivizes this move.

David Boles

@antonioserrata @paul @HistoPol

Big Money never plays nice. We've already seen this scenario and we likely know how it will end before it begins!

This is an open space by definition and they're going to sit down hard in it until they're satisfied they've drained all the value they can take with them.

Paul Chambers replied to DELETED

@antonioserrata @david @HistoPol

This reminds me of the murder of Usenet and the recurring attempted murder of RSS.

David Boles replied to Paul

@paul @antonioserrata @HistoPol

I still mourn the loss of Google Reader.

Feedly is a good replacement, though.

Paul Chambers replied to David

@david @antonioserrata @HistoPol

I use TheOldReader.com and have the app installed on my Android and even can post directly to Mastodon from within it.

It is my godsend.

DELETED replied to Paul

@paul @david @HistoPol Commercial entities are incentivized to kill off anything that's competition at all costs. So yea they're gonna do that to the fediverse if allowed to encroach without any guard rails (if allowed at all to engage with it).

David Boles replied to DELETED

@antonioserrata @paul @HistoPol

There must be some idea of defense at play. There are smarter people than us in the Fediverse who must have anticipated this Big Money drop, right?

HistoPol (#HP) replied to David

@david @antonioserrata @paul

(1/2)

Most certainly.

But, as in most cases, maybe except for some smaller instances, did they really do anything about it.

I think this issue of #BarbarianInvasions of commercial proprietary social-media sites through #ActivityPub is important enough to involve @Gargron.

To repeat my stance, as I do not see a feasible solution for limiting the influx of #Metas #DefederateMeta
Offer them some "easy sign-on", limited in daily number, so the #Fediverse is not...

@david @antonioserrata @paul

(1/2)

Most certainly.

But, as in most cases, maybe except for some smaller instances, did they really do anything about it.

I think this issue of #BarbarianInvasions of commercial proprietary social-media sites through #ActivityPub is important enough to involve @Gargron.

HistoPol (#HP) replied to HistoPol

@david @antonioserrata @paul @Gargron

(2/2)

...technically and culturally annihilated, or rather, assimiliated by the #BorgSites.

#DefederateMeta

HistoPol (#HP)

@antonioserrata @paul @david

Ok, so I am not the only one thinking this!

#EmbraceExtendExtinguish is the strategy, and thinking of the many other nice hardware and software technologies that were just acquired and then put into the locker is extensive.

#DefederateMeta

possibly:
#DefederateMegaInstances to come.

DELETED replied to HistoPol

@HistoPol @paul @david I think it's important to take note which instances want to play ball with the broader fediverse and which want to destroy it. For instance a Mozilla and Vivaldi run instances are good and they don't have competing interests and seem to play ball with the rest of the Fediverse, Meta OTOH is an 800lb gorilla in a china shop with the same subtlety of corporate character, Zuckerberg has shown he lacks ANY ethics at all, so it behooves us to be VERY wary of intentions & action

HistoPol (#HP) replied to DELETED

@antonioserrata @paul @david

Completely agree.

I think the #Unfriendlies are all going to be publicly listed companies on major stock exchanges. Presently, I only see #Meta and his #MegaInstances as instances which probably should be treated differently.

WordPress is FOSS and Medium.com seems to be ok for now.

David Boles replied to DELETED

@antonioserrata @HistoPol @paul

I agree. His Metaverse is a complete failure, and he needs to find a new darling, and it appears Mastodon may just be the next thing for him to squeeze all the fun out of for profit. It makes the day gloomy thinking about it.

David Boles

@paul @HistoPol

I was told that importing has been extensively discussed, but isn't really happening for a variety of reasons.

Another person provided this link:

github.com/mastodon/mastodon/i

HistoPol (#HP)

@david

Thanks, I will look into this.
I know that there is no automatic follower migration.

@paul

David Boles

@paul @HistoPol

Ok. I'm told the short answer importing isn't happening because it's a liability issue for Admins.

Whatever that means.

I've asked for the long answer.

HistoPol (#HP)

@david @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @volkris @hashtaggames

"...but not upload it".

I think I read that it is possible.

Besides, with "software" anything is possible, in particular with #FOSS.--You just need to find one up-to-the-task programmer PO'ed enough that he solves that.

It might not be available on all instances, though.

David Boles

@HistoPol @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @volkris @hashtaggames

I just asked. I'll see what the answer is. I was told by my host that export is only there to satisfy GDPR requirements to "take your data with you" and that's where it begins and ends. Perfunctory in process only.

Paul Chambers

@david @HistoPol
I think that is accurate as to why the export was added but the discussion is to add some kind of import. I saw a Github package that parsed the download archive, retooted with everything unlisted so it wouldn't spam the timeline but it isn't part of actual official package. I'll have to find the link later and tag you. It was just being tested and rudimentary. I don't think it will ever be added officially, though because of issues it would cause instances.

David Boles replied to Paul

@paul @HistoPol

Yes, I sent you several replies about it.

It isn't going to happen officially in Mastodon.

Paul Chambers replied to David

@david @HistoPol

I read them as I was typing. I'm slower with my Parkinsons than people are with discussions and many times I am behind on the progress of the discussions.

David Boles replied to Paul

@paul @HistoPol

Got it! I'll remember that, thanks.

Here's the long answer:

Posts on one server may be fine, but importing them on another server might violate local laws due to hate speech, etc. Country to country, etc.

That's the effect of the Fediverse: Not all local instance jurisdictions are created equal, so, no universal import option.

Right now, an Admin can't take on the possible liability, but they're thinking about letting that happen in Mastodon itself.

HistoPol (#HP) replied to David

@david @paul

Ok, I can see that point. However, this will vary from country to country / jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

This, in my understanding, is what the discussion about Section 230 is about in the US:

"In the United States, companies that offer web hosting services are shielded from liability for most
content that customers or malicious users place on the websites they host. Section 230 of the...

HistoPol (#HP) replied to HistoPol

@david @paul

(2/2)
...
Communications Decency Act, 47 U.S.C. § 230 (―Section 230‖). protects hosting providers from
liability for content placed on these websites by their customers or other parties"

Similar laws are in place in at least some countries of the #europeanunion
So, no, this is a liability issue any instance owner should be looking into before opening it to users outside of his family.

It is not limited to toot imports.

@david @paul

(2/2)
...
Communications Decency Act, 47 U.S.C. § 230 (―Section 230‖). protects hosting providers from
liability for content placed on these websites by their customers or other parties"

Similar laws are in place in at least some countries of the #europeanunion
So, no, this is a liability issue any instance owner should be looking into before opening it to users outside of his family.

David Boles replied to HistoPol

@HistoPol @paul

Yes, that's why there's such tight filtering on AI Image Bots. So many sick people out there trying to create all the wrong images.

HistoPol (#HP) replied to David

@david @paul

Could be said about #porn, in particular #bdsm and other "variants" as well.

However, a fake video of #HunterBiden trying to shoot #TFG in the street might really be an issue on a whole other level.

I recently listened to a #podcast on this. They can already fake any voice without it being detectable, provided that there is enough sample material.

David Boles replied to HistoPol

@HistoPol @paul

Deep fakes are real, and here -- and proving you didn't do it will increasingly become impossible.

Craig Nicol replied to David

@david @HistoPol @paul am I going to have to start cryptographically signing all my posts?

David Boles replied to Craig

@craignicol @HistoPol @paul

Not your posts -- your face and your voice! Where is Elon when we need cryptographic brain implants to sign our every thought?

HistoPol (#HP) replied to David

@david @craignicol @paul

Facial and voice recognition would be even worse, due to #identitytheft

Last year, I declined a good offer from a financial institution because I was only possible through video conferencing and authentication.

No go for me.

Nowadays, you cannot know what might be illegal next year.

David Boles replied to HistoPol

@HistoPol @craignicol @paul

You should try to verify your identity with Facebook sometime. They want a photo. Dated paper with your signature. Code numbers on the paper. Government ID. And it's all verified by a Bot and if the Bot can't read all that, you can't get back on because there are no humans looking at anything unless it's a special circumstance.

HistoPol (#HP) replied to Craig

@craignicol @david @paul

If that were be the case, I would not be posting anymore. At all.

Hundreds of thousands of people have suffered data breaches at the big SM sites.

If that info goes to a) authoritarian states or b) to (some) Red states and it is about abortion

...you are in really DEEP trouble.

When #Elmo tried to localize me through emphatically requesting that I enter my phone number, I decided to stay #twitterbanned

ABSOLUTE #dealbreaker IMHO.

Bluedepth replied to David

@david @HistoPol @paul I had an idea of turning TOTP into a kind of reality-proving mechanism for anti-deepfake videos. We use it for 2FA/MFA, but flipping it inside out it could be a mathematically derivable serial number that could prove reality and time stamp. But I’m just a nobody with a chatterbox brain, so pffft. ;)

HistoPol (#HP) replied to Bluedepth

@Bluedepth @david @paul

Sounds thrilling. But #DeepFakes are only my second concern.

With the increasing number of authoritarian #GreatFirewall countries and the sell-out of customer data on the #BorgSites, I am more concerned about being identifiable and subject to profiling.

David Boles replied to HistoPol

@HistoPol @Bluedepth @paul

I'm not sure why that bothers you -- because it's already happened!

David Boles replied to Bluedepth

@Bluedepth @HistoPol @paul

These are good thoughts and really important conversations to have!

HistoPol (#HP)

@david @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @volkris @hashtaggames

Let*s see.
Anything that can be downloaded can be uploaded again (in principle).

I also had (originally) thought about migrating my #Birdsite legacy here, but decided against it. Not for technical reasons, though. Converting the data should be feasible, with some effort.

David Boles replied to HistoPol

@HistoPol @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @juneussell @volkris @hashtaggames

I agree with you! I guess it depends where you live and what international laws are at play. I don't know how WordPress gets away with allowing imports, but such is life, I guess.

Flaming June

@HistoPol @david @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @volkris @hashtaggames I’m doing the opposite here. Auto deleting every 2 weeks. I’m enjoying being ephemeral.

HistoPol (#HP)

@juneussell @david @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @Bluedepth @darren @volkris @hashtaggames
God point and max security. :)

Yes, that might be an option. - Two weeks, however, would not work for me.
But I will give this some though, though I want to keep my toots in a DB or something locally at least.

Bluedepth

@HistoPol @juneussell @david @paul @fediversereport @fediversenews @darren @volkris @hashtaggames the Automatic Post Deletion has criteria to it too. Like keep posts if they get lots of favorites or boosts, and how much to keep. Along with pinned and other sorts of criteria. I did some poking around after I spotted it. I was so gratified at the really thoughtful criteria available. Very neat. :)

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