Gregory's Server@Gargron Whether it's Trump or Harris, a fascist is going to win the U.S. presidential election. Those of us opposed to fascism can vote for Jill Stein. Even though it's clear she's not going to win, we have the opportunity to build an anti-fascist alternative in American politics.
|
48 comments
@WAHa_06x36 I have seen no credible evidence that Jill Stein is in any sense "Putin's puppet." As for Kamala Harris being a fascist, she's in the pocket of moneyed interests and supports a militaristic foreign policy, including full throated support for Israel's ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people. @gwm @WAHa_06x36 There's a lot of space between "intermittently beholden to some corporate interests" and "we won't have elections anymore and will violently round up our political adversaries." Neither is ideal but one is clearly better. @baconandcoconut @WAHa_06x36 For me, support for genocide is a red line I am unwilling to cross.  @gwm @baconandcoconut Understood, and it sucks that you do not get a good choice on that, but, that's it: You don't get a good choice on that. Trump is *much worse* on that than Harris, and a vote for Jill Stein helps only Trump. @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut My vote for Jill Stein will not help Donald Trump in any way. @gwm @baconandcoconut I struggle to believe you are actually so naïve that you believe this. @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut A vote for Jill Stein does not add to any other candidate's vote tally. @WAHa_06x36 @gwm @baconandcoconut if you look at his profile... I mean he likely is that stupid. And quite conservative. @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut You seem to believe that I had an ethical duty to vote for Kamala Harris. That was never going to happen. She disqualified herself by supporting genocide. @gwm I don't think you had a "duty" to do anything. I think you wanted to do something - prevent genocide - and you made a choice that ended up hurting that goal. That has nothing to do with "duty", and everything to do with how things work in practice. @WAHa_06x36 I don't see how voting for a candidate who supports a genocide will help to end it. @gwm Because that one candidate can have her mind changed, and the other can not, and risks ending democracy as a whole. @gwm @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut considering both Putin and Netanyahu are gambling on a Trump victory, it's fair to say a vote for Trump is a vote for genocide. Sometimes you need to hold your nose and vote strategically, not because you think Harris will be bad, but because electing Trump would be catastrophic. That is the eventuality to prevent. @gwm @WAHa_06x36 @baconandcoconut The absolute vote tally—which you refer to, Mr. Maschke—is irrelevant in our system. The relative vote tally determines the winner, not the absolute vote tally. So that's the flaw in your logic. Please let me know if you have any further questions. @gwm Your vote for Jill Stein elects Donald Trump. You're trolling people with how bad this is. @gwm @WAHa_06x36 American activists will not be able to continue advocating for an end to the atrocities in Palestine under a US dictatorship. The power to stop US support won't be about public opinion, it will be about the whim of one angry, all-powerful person who is willing to put activists in jail whenever he feels like it. @baconandcoconut @gwm @WAHa_06x36 counterpoint, they won't need to. If Trump wins there will be no Palestinians left to support. @gwm You support war crimes in Ukraine as Jill Stein supports the Russian invasion. Period. @gwm Look, there is literally a photo of her sitting down for dinner with him. If that is not enough for you I can not help you: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/guess-who-came-dinner-flynn-putin-n742696 @WAHa_06x36 Jill Stein attended a media event in Moscow in 2015. She was a speaker there and attended at her own expense. Vladimir Putin sat at her table for about fifteen minutes and pleasantries were exchanged. It takes strongly motivated reasoning to leap from this to the conclusion that Jill Stein is a "Russian asset." @gwm How many "media events" did Harris attend with Putin? And that is far from the only reason, it is just the most blatantly visible one. Did you look at who else attended? As for other reason, there are many: https://www.thirdway.org/memo/jill-stein-a-russian-asset-and-a-hypocrite   @Gargron@mastodon.social @gwm@mastodon.social These people should really read some political strategy... Preventing a fascist bigot from being president (again) is much more important than voting for someone who is guaranteed to not win. Learn to compromise. @gwm@mastodon.social @Gargron@mastodon.social Wasting your vote on russian asset Jill Stein.   @gwm every vote that is not going to Harris and instead to a third party with no chance of winning will indirectly go to Trump. By not voting for Harris you're voting for Trump.  @gwm Opposing fascism by voting against the antifascist coalition with a throwaway candidate that's not even on the ballot in most states is not being antifascist.  @gwm this is horrendous advice. Just a wasted vote. At the very least vote for the one of the two you dislike the least. Nobody else has a chance, but your vote can make a difference among the other two. And one is SIGNIFICANTLY more dangerous, and proven so. Christ! @gwm that does not make a third party vote valuable, sadly. And if Hitler 2.0 is elected then people who voted for a third party will be as responsible as those who didn't vote or those who did vote for the monster. Now is not the time to simply protest vote. Votes need to mean something, now more than ever. Regardless, you've already cast your vote, and I doubt there's any changing your mind anyway, but in case anyone else stumbles across this, holy shit don't let your vote go to waste! @anthony Third party votes are valuable even if the third party candidate does not win. They are crucial for building an alternative to the duopoly that rules us now. This is a process that will take time to succeed. I did that once with Barry Commoner in 1980 because I couldn't bring myself to vote for the centrist Democrat Jimmy Carter. When Reagan and the Heritage Foundation took power, that vote seemed really stupid. I spent years paying for it with untold hours on the streets in demonstrations and knocking on doors to try to un-do it.  |
@gwm Come on. It's 2024. At this point you need to be able bring yourself to admit that Jill Stein is Putin's puppet. She is supported by one of the biggest fascists in power today.
It would be lovely to have a viable green party in the US. But *you don't have that*. You have a Russian op. Jill Stein is not what you want.
Harris is far from perfect, but is also nowhere near is a fascist. Trump and Jill Stein, however, literally are.