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Eugen Rochko

Developing Mastodon, I strive to use terminology that is familiar to as many people as possible so as to not put up unnecessary barriers in understanding. For this reason I am happy that we went away from calling posts "toots". It has always been a point of friction for people. Not that I dislike branding, quite the opposite, but in my experience receiving feedback over half a decade, it had a negative effect on the platform for little benefit.

213 comments
Eugen Rochko

Probably not a lot of people know this now, but Mastodon's web app started out with "Publish". In 2016 a famous YouTuber jokingly offered to support Mastodon's Patreon forever if I changed the button to say "Toot" instead. Needless to say, this was a really early, and not very informed decision. The first glimpse of attention and financial support. As a non-native speaker I had no idea there was another meaning.

Eugen Rochko

I like that I was able to go back to "Publish" in the official iOS and Android apps. It may be less whimsical, and less branded, but after using the platform for such a long time, I'm perfectly happy with a button that just describes what it will do without trying to be cute (not that I dislike cute, I'd never part with our elephant illustrations). I have seen enough "Dr. Doom toots as he pleases" quotes in the first two years of Mastodon to last me a lifetime.

R. L. Dane :debian: :openbsd:

@Gargron
With the greatest of respect, sir,
I will be calling them toots forever.
🐘 💨
🤣

stux⚡

@Gargron That's a funny story actually :blobcatgiggle:

And ofc this was a logical decision back in the day! :toot: Personally I really don't mind how the button is being called as long as it makes sense, and in this case it totally does!

I have had nothing but positive replies from people online and AFK about it :blobcatgiggle: It uh.. takes the edge off or something :mastolol2:

Doutor

@Gargron Sorry to cut your posts off with a question but will Mastodon have a "repost" button that we can comment on, something like a retweet with quote?

Mark W. Gabby-Li 🐌

@Gargron Free software has traditionally had a major issue with off-putting names.

I've been very impressed with the prudence of your leadership of this project, and I would like to say that I 100% support you in this decision.
It's a solid choice that I think will help lead the project to wider adoption.

Miguel_B

@Gargron Toot is going away?
Well, I guess I know what rewrite rule I'll be applying.
I happen to *love* the "Toot!" button. It's quirky and much better than the boring "publish"

spaphy

@Gargron settings-> “replace publish with toot”

Now Dr doom gets to be satisfied :lul:

tom h

@Gargron fwiw I always found the word toot a little embarrassing. Not because of the other meaning but just because it felt a bit too jokey. Is there a reason you chose "publish" over "post"?

DELETED

@Gargron I think a better alternative would be “Post!”, especially for non-public posts and direct conversations.

M. J. Wolfe

@Gargron, this might sound weird, but I liked that it said “toot”. It made it seem different from other platforms.

“Publish” is so generic. “Toot” was very on-brand with the whole Mammoth theme.

I thought it was fantastic.

sky⁉️ :heart_genderqueer:

@Gargron I think "post" would be better. "Publish" is a little heavy for a tiny 500-character piece of text, it sounds more like you're putting out a book or an academic paper or something.

Ben Adrian Sarmiento

@Gargron I hope all software engineers think the same way

smallcircles (Humane Tech Now)

@Gargron what a great history to the name. TIL.

Yes, likely a good decision to take away friction. And I've seen countless HN discussion where people took offense, while others defended the name.

"Toot" will live on in the Urban Dictionary of the fediverse and people say it affectionally.

I am no sociologist but I feel that that simple "dare to be different" name might have contributed a lot to the current Fediverse culture we have, and which we like so much.

MrTangoWhisky

@Gargron So kurz ich auch im Fediverse unterwegs bin, ich nutze Mastodon gerade wegen der anderen Begrifflichkeiten. Man versuche dem geneigten Nutzer zu erklären, warum man auf deutsch bei anderen Plattformen zwitschert, (ver)bucht, aufstellt oder abschickt und doch immer *to post* benutzt. Wer weiß denn, dass "Google" sich von Googol ableitet, einer Bezeichnung eines neunjährigen für eine 1 mit hundert Nullen?

MrTangoWhisky

@Gargron Wer im SocialMedia-Umfeld trötet oder tootet, der erntet sofort Aufmerksamkeit und wird, nach eigener Erfahrung, gründlich ausgefragt. Aber wer fragt schon nach dem *Wo*, wen vom Posten die Rede ist?
Bei Twitter tweetet/zwitschert man eine Tweet.
Bei Mastodon trötet man einen Post/Beitrag?
Bei Facebook postet man einen Eintrag?

Mackaj

@gargron I'm English and any potential disparaging connotations associated with "toot" hadn't even occurred to me. I just took it at face value and its cuteness is appealing. I hope you make this change configurable so that instances have the option to stick with toot if they wish.

Tantz Aerine :kafeneio:

@Gargron A bit of self-sarcasm never harmed anyone. Tooting might be a way to remember not to take ourselves too seriously and be open to the opinions of others rather than just smell our own. Bottom line, tooting is a-ok. Puns intended and I'm sorry.

bob :fediverse:

@Gargron You know, I kind of read it as "I shall now toot my own horn", which is a lovely little English idiom grounded in a simpler, quainter past I miss very much.

Keep up the great work. The 4.0 candidate looks killer.

Better Days 💪🏾🏀 🗑️🔥

@Gargron Losing "toots" seems like a good change. What about swapping the term "instance" to "server(s)" to describe other.... servers. 💿

J

@Gargron
I... hadn't even thought of the Dr. Doom meme... But that is brilliant and perfect.

Daniel Appelquist

@Gargron personally I’ve embraced the “toot” but I understand where you’re coming from.

murph

@Gargron I guess @Gargron should have gone with something proper, and dignified, like "tweet"

kebab

@Gargron I think toot is iconic, and you did the right thing

Russ Sharek

@Gargron

The toot button is charming, and I suspect the silliness encouraged me to give the platform a chance.

Sometimes not too serious is a good thing.

Xucaen ☮️💚🌿

@Gargron I do prefer "publish".
"Toot" sounds likeI eat too much fast food. 😅😉✌️

alas.ear.wax

@Gargron 第一次发现 toot 除了「发嘟文」外还有「吸食可卡因」的意思 = =

CautionWIP

@Gargron I mean, you’ve no doubt seen this, but just in case.

Namor tells Dr Doom not to toot the magic shell. Doom replies “Fool! Doom toots as he pleases!”
Joan // Stay apart, Mask up

@Gargron Ah, well. I think that other meaning is a kind of Americanism, more than anything, so it doesn't really matter.

Hunter Gough 🍦🌹

@Gargron "toot" is fabulous and never let anyone tell you otherwise.

FuriYuri

@Gargron toot is fine. Tooting your horn is a thing in English. Yes it can mean to pass gas but that's just one meaning.

jigbean

@Gargron Do they still support the patreon though? I have been, well, not liking the whole toot thing but this story kind of makes me love it just a little bit.

SocProf

@Gargron And as they say, the rest is history.

Gabriel ☕️

@Gargron that was a very charming piece of information! Toot is fine :notsimple:

Ted :pmgpurple:

@Gargron We staunchly stand by our decision to change every string to “Post” 🤣

Paul Neave

@Gargron It could have been worse. You could have used “Trump” 🙈 Toot is fine 👍

Agentlemaninjapan

@Gargron to be fair there are people who sound like they are talking out of their arse sometimes (even though I've yet to find someone like that on here yet), I like it. 😂

𝔗𝔲𝔩𝔲𝔩𝔞 𝔗𝔢𝔫𝔞𝔫𝔱

@Gargron Thanks for offering us SM refugees a new home. We are so grateful.

jojowiththeflow :coffefied:

@Gargron This is kind of cute, though. And I like the (alternative meaning of the) term "Toot" if only to remind us not to take ourselves too seriously.

Rudi

@Gargron as someone with chronic GI issues, 'toot' makes me feel seen (or heard???)

Tim Bray

@Gargron eh, I think Toot is just fine. Its *major* meaning is to blow a musical note on a horn.

Hyolobrika

@Gargron "Not to *toot* my own horn, but I'm trying to be accessible and you're not. Nur nur ne nur nur."

Григорий Клюшников

Birds tweet, elephants toot. It's a fact of life.

Though it's always funny for me how Twitter always capitalizes the words "tweet" and "retweet" everywhere, like they're trademarks or something. It almost feels like they'd write it as "Eugen Retweeted™ your Tweet™" if their lawyers were given enough power.

MagicLike 💙💛

@Gargron
Wouldn't it be possible to create a theme, which changes the button back to toot, but it is not the default one?

unagi

@Gargron Oh but we love “toot” soooooo much… I guess a lot of instances won’t follow this change.

Michael

@Gargron Though I do understand why this step might have been necesary, I disagree. It's the quirkyness, the small features that stand out, that give (or gave) this platform its charm. I'll miss toots.

LambLeeg :blobfoxcomfysip:

@Gargron These are gonna be toots in our hearts forever :ablobcathappypaws:

Azeril

@Gargron 其实「toots」(or「嘟嘟」)的名称蛮好的 可爱的代称 虽然没有让用户明确功能这件事重要 但可爱毕竟是可爱...

Nordnick :verified:

@Gargron
I just started to use "Tröt" (german) instead of "Toot"... and now? Just "post" or "publish" or "status update"... or what?

But it is still Mastodon, right? :mastowink:

Rhialto ✔✔✔

@Gargron I never liked the "toot" terminology, and I've always said "post" instead anyway.

mtk

@Gargron well, that's a bit sad - it's a nice flaw and gives Mastodon something special

davecykl

Thanks for this, @Gargron. “Quirky” terms can be fun, but sometimes they can just cause confusion.

On a similar note, could “Favourite” maybe be renamed to “Like” (the idea of having an ever growing large list of ‘favourites’, that you would probably never even look at again, always seemed a bit illogical), and “Boost” be renamed to “Repost” (or maybe “Share”)?

I suspect that the current terms seem confusing (and possibly cliquey) to many newcomers?

Caac :verified:

@Gargron hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Dave Francisco

@Gargron What do we call them now? Also, I'm a new user and thank you for building this platform!

Alex O’Neal

@Gargron As a designer and writer I agree with you wholeheartedly!

Brian

@Gargron smart move. I think things like this matter and will make a difference in growth. I’d also consider changing favorites to likes. Favorites has a connotation with making lists or saving bookmarks which isn’t the same as lightly liking a post. Finally, the name Mastodon itself is a tough one. The band steals all your SEO, people don’t know what it means, and it’s long to pronounce… Mast for short?

Merijn 👨‍💻:mastodon:

@Gargron tbh the thing I enjoy most about Mastodon is that I get to click a button labelled TOOT when I post something. 😄

Argenis

Thank you for the change, even though at least in my browser, the button still says Toot!

Maria Liv ✏️

@Gargron But doesn’t it still says “toot” in here? 🌷

Roger Erik Tinch

@Gargron “toots” is still being referred to in recent how-to articles I’ve read. So glad you made the change since it sounded ridiculous to say.

ocdtrekkie

@Gargron I didn't even know they weren't called toots anymore.

...Still gonna think of them as toots though.

Kristin (vis.social Admin)

@Gargron Fantastic! "posts" is so much more relatable, especially to newcomers.

Speyquine (Lucy)

@Gargron ha, I'd just learned that was the word but I do prefer posts.

Jack Groundhog 📷📸🪶

@Gargron Bummer, I always thought “toots” and „Tröt“ were adorably cute. 😅

Zerov (he/him)

@Gargron I like this approach very much. I think technology should use more simple and self explanatory terms to make it more accessible.

I've seen someone suggest calling them "communities" instead of "instances" or "servers" and I totally agree.

We're dealing with humans, so let's use human language.

Chris Pitts

@Gargron @Pwnallthethings Personally I find it endearing. It’s a differentiator, fits with the Mastodon theme and a great bit of fun - something which is important to me. Too many developers and companies take themselves far too seriously. There’s no reason to conflate ‘professional’ with ‘dull’ or ‘serious’.

Keep up the great work!

Ann Lipton

@Gargron okay but @nathanrichardson was calling threads "toot suites" and i think we need to keep that.

CodexNotFound

@Gargron I'm very confused, what weird thing does Toot mean? Besides the meaning related to elephants and wind instruments I'm unable to find another meaning anywhere.

𝔗𝔲𝔩𝔲𝔩𝔞 𝔗𝔢𝔫𝔞𝔫𝔱

@Gargron Good move, esp that "toots" are synonymous with "farts" in some parts, among the preschooler set.

Shmarkus

@Gargron the "Toot!" button works well for me. Every time I press it, my mind says "Toot" which is pronounced "Tuut" which, in Estonian, means "beep" :)

Tuut

jrm4

@Gargron

now let us talk to the fine fellows creating the GNU Image Manipulation Program

Jutta Eckstein

@Gargron
So, how are you calling them now? Tweets? Really? Or just posts? Or???

Matt Cropp 🌲🌲

@Gargron

It will always be tooting, in our hearts.

🐘 💨

Swole anthropomorphized Mastodon with "Do You Even Toot?" caption
Autistic Book Club

@Gargron I prefer Toots! It took a day to get used to, but it’s unique to Mastodon! 🙌 #ILoveToots

Christina Hendriks

@Gargron honestly it’s grown on me now. I like it!

Federated Photon Empress 🌸

@Gargron it is a fun story, but I do enjoy the whimsy of toot. There is something just… fun… about it.

Alan

@Gargron Did they hold true to the promise though?

ShadSterling

@Gargron I don’t care about the difference between toot, post, share, or publish, but the misuse of the term “boost” bothers me. It doesn’t increase(boost) the weight of that post in decisions about what to show, it adds that post to the timeline of your own posts - it should be called retoot, repost, reblog, or similar

Matthew Davis

@Gargron Is there a way I can change the labeling on my instance in one place, or do I need to do it at the code level? The "toot" nomenclature is a bit odd, but to be fair so was "tweet."

Citizen Paul Templeman

@Gargron dangerously close to ‘tweets’. Which came first? 😉

MJ

@Gargron I'm a little confused. I see all this discussion dating back to May 23, I read about "posts", and "publish", but my blue button still says "Toot!" So when I hit the "Toot!" button am I tooting, posting, publishing, or what?

Colette

@Gargron in my house, with two young kids, ‘toots’ mean one thing and is immediately followed by opening the window and trying to breathe through your mouth 💨💨💨

Azd

@Gargron try blurting instaed of tooting😂

The Air Whisperer

@Gargron

Hi Eugen !

Thanks for 'keeping it real'

- I'm happier to 'post' than 'toot' or etc...!

I've also started to 'sensi-censor' images, after learning that some viewers might be disturbed by faces looking towards them.

Would it be possible at some point to provide the image-mounting interface with a dropdown of detail labels for this purpose...?

It seems unlikely that most of the newer users will be working from the same view of 'sensitivities' that your habitual posters understand...

Melissa Courte

@Gargron @evanoconnell here’s the thread re: “toot” terminology :)

Jacob Moena 🇩🇰

@Gargron renaming "Toot" to "Publish" is not the best decision you've made.

There was (and still is) a whole culture built around that word.

You are now going to lose that culture.
Don't underestimate what a shared vocabulary means for a community.

"Toot" is the sound of a horn.
Should people stop playing brass instruments because it euphemistically also means to let go of wind (which itself is an euphemism).

Who else thought "tweet" was silly back in the day?

What a lost opportunity.

@Gargron renaming "Toot" to "Publish" is not the best decision you've made.

There was (and still is) a whole culture built around that word.

You are now going to lose that culture.
Don't underestimate what a shared vocabulary means for a community.

"Toot" is the sound of a horn.
Should people stop playing brass instruments because it euphemistically also means to let go of wind (which itself is an euphemism).

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