Gregory's ServerVery good comment that serves as motivation for my main point, which expressed in polite terms would something like THE PROBLEM IS NOT AI THE PROBLEM IS F*CKING CAPITALISM. As you accurately describe, what incentive has Sam Altman to share his AI, there is it none. The solution is eliminating Sam Altman and all their ilk. In other words, getting rid of capitalism would solve all of this problems.
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Oh, I see you have a good job and you are probably happy living in capitalism, I understand it now. It is not an ad-hominem (or at least not entirely), I am just implying that he might be having a conflict of interests here.  Therefore I do not understand why you seem to criticize my answer of "what we need to do is to get rid of capitalists" @sjuvonen @remenca @tinker nuclear power and nuclear medicine, which both save an incredible number of lives, are here because the tech started as a weapon of mass death. Nobody wants mass death. But the science was good and matured into something very useful. AI can do just that if it’s not strangled by capitalism along the way. Thats why it’s important to point to good applications while criticizing theft and energy use. We can do both. Don't apologize, it is not your fault, it is really my English :) I normally engage in debates in internet that are often beyond my level and from time to time it just happens that I do not explain myself correctly, but it is a good practice anyway. Have a nice weekend. Greetings from Barcelona. That is because it is in capitalist hands, which is my entire point. We only need to seize it, like any other means of production, and socialize it's benefits. For instance, if you are an artist and you work has been used for training an AI, you should perceive the proportional part of whatever it would have been paid to generate an image with that AI. @remenca @tinker You better be careful what you wish for. You wish to be made redundant by an AI. When you dig down, there appear to be two kinds of AI boosters (who are not shareholders in a hot company). One group wants slaves. One group wants to build a god and become its priesthood. The common thread is that both enforce and encode a strict hierarchy in society.  I totally agree. Actually, this was my point all the time. But with single catch. You failed to mention why this will and has happened. And the reason is because those technological improvements have been always in hands of the rich. It is not a problem of technology itself, it is a problem of who owns it. It is a political problem. Therefore, it makes no sense to blame AI for it. It is like blaming laundry machines for the loss of jobs of the launderers. I'm tempted to reply but think it will be better if you reach the conclusion by yourself, so I will only ask: You say that if AI takes over our jobs we will end doing the more menial tasks that AI cannot do. But those task must have been being done now anyway, no? So what will change? @remenca @sjuvonen @tinker New kind of jobs and especially services came out of electrification. I don't expect that AI will take only the mental part and we end up with currently existing jobs of being hairdressers and waiters, but instead new services will emerge. 200 years ago, nobody could imagine a world with most jobs being not a farmer or craftsman. I'm not a native speaker and sometimes I'm unable to convey what I meant. My question was more to point that those menial jobs, like farmer or waiter, that cannot be automatized with AI (at least in its present incarnation) are already being fulfilled by humans, so it does not matter how much AI we add to society, those jobs will still to be done all the same. Nothing will change in that regard. No, this is not true. When industrialization is paired with capitalism it results in that the capitalist take over everything and the rest get poorer. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305750X22002169 @remenca @sjuvonen @tinker The charts on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_poverty shows what I meant. Your article (colonialism, capitalism) might be true, but is a different topic. Yes, when everyone is a farmer and can care for theirselves, there is almost no extreme poverty. Too off-topic to discuss further though.   I think that your demands of greater clarity are fair, but replacing capitalism with something else is something very complicated, so my answer will be unavoidably incomplete and flawed. Removing the rich people is something that has been attempted in the past and in many occasions succeeded. The secret I'd say is to have at least part of the military in your side. 1917 revolution, Paris commune, Burkina Faso, etc...all share this trait. The tricky part seems to be twofold. First you need to avoid other powers that are friendly to the rich you have removed that will try do destroy you. This has also happened in failed revolutions like in Germany, Spain or the rest of the springtime of peoples. We could even consider the Napoleonic wars against the French revolution an instance of this. The only solution I see to this is again having the support of the military. Finally, if you have not been destroyed by your capitalist enemies, the only problem is how to avoid becoming a capitalist yourself after you gain power. This is what in my understanding led to the USSR demise with the apparition of the Nomenklatura or the capitalist "communism" from China. Still, it can be argued that at least those systems ended being softer versions of capitalism that the ones that replaced, so it was not all in vain, but still. Applying this to the current situation I think that a more or less clear picture arises. The military is split in two parts, one is the military industrial complex and the other is the cannon fodder that are extremely brainwashed with maga stuff in the bottom. Some years ago the brainwashing worked because USA was the most advanced country, but this seems to be ending due to the climate change, resource depletion and the apparition of emerging powers like the brics. So far they have managed to keep the cannon fodder fooled by blaming minorities and woke people for everything. But this will not work forever, simply because the real causes of the American decline are not those, and they will run out of minorities to blame. What will happen when this happens and the bottom military realize they have been tricked? I don't know, but it could open an opportunity like the Kornilov affair where the military change sides. So in my opinion, considering how powerful the propaganda machine is, the only thing we can do is just wait until the whole thing comes breaking down. And try to educate all the maga bigots - especially the ones in the army - until they realize they are just poor proletariat like us. Other than that I don't know. It is said Lenin once said that any society is only two missed meals from revolution. We are getting there. I have to say that as catalan living in Spain, where we have a public system that is in shambles compared to 20 years ago, I am always surprised at the situation in USA. The declining life expectancy, the bloated hospital bills, the whole mess with COVID and the masks. It is outlandish. You have my sympathy and support. @DMTea @sjuvonen @tinker  So ... Interesting point, but I think it's not entirely accurate. I would say the problem is human greed, which uses capitalism as a vehicle. As long as there's people that are ambitious and wanting to be powerful, those people will use whatever systemic tools available to get it. Socialism helps, but if greedy people get into the leadership and corrupt it, they can still use those systems to make themselves powerful. It does make it harder for them though. The problem with AI is that while the technology is not necessarily evil, it's more easily used by the powerful. What makes this technology so scary for me is that Sam Altmans of the world are leveraging this tech now. When you talk about not working, I see myself in a system that only rewards me with survival for working while providing no actual opportunity to do so, which is terrifying. It's terrible because what should be a liberating tool as you frame it is in reality being weaponized against the regular Joe. Joe calls in to xyz corporation to complain about terrible product x, and AI plays the gatekeeper, screens joe from getting to a person, meanwhile CEO boss Steve saves money by doing the bigger dick move, and the environment burns as icing on the cake. The potential for a Star Trek future is there, that's certainly not what we're dealing with now, and I have serious doubts we'll be around long enough to see what the world looks like once the tech matures. |
@remenca @tinker Oh simple as that.