@afewbugs I'm so angry when someone tells me "just use X instead of Y", because there's a reason why I use Y. I might not have time to learn or learning curve is just too steep. Of course new things require time to get the grasp of them, but the default answer for some issues shouldn't be "just use something else". We should make things easier to use, but can't forget that someone simply doesn't want to change anything

@afewbugs yeah, I like to use Linux. But I am working in an enterprise environment, when my company says all the computers have to have windows installed then "just use Linux" is not gonna magically make it appear on my device.

@afewbugs

We need big hardware sellers to support preinstalled Linux. They all have Windows preinstalled. Phones have Android preinstalled. Apple is a hardware manufacturer with their own OS. Why does this not happen for Linux? There's System76, but they're tiny. Linux is a massive opportunity for any hardware seller to become more like Apple.

@afewbugs
People have been working on making Linux more available for decades now. It's at the stage where it's probably more intuitive, more usable and more friendly than Windows ever was.

Yes, it's different, and thus requires investment in familiarizing yourself with a different os, but it's no worse than going, say, from win10 to win11.

The "Linux is for nerds" meme has to die.

@afewbugs "complicate" is relative ... E.g. I voluntarily used Windows because I thought the offline file system caching might work ok. It doesn't. Hiding complexity does not make it go away.

@afewbugs chicken and egg problem. The most significant change that can lower the barrier to entry to the non default option is large-scale adoption.

@afewbugs You must have no idea how much time is wasted by using Windows; converting is only a one time Investment.

@afewbugs We should fight to make companies that reach a certain number of users to have (rotating and possibly elected) users councils or public consultations with veto power. The same should happen with companies that reach a number of employees and worker councils.

This would prevent a lot of the disgusting things we have seen lately, including AI shenanigans, investment in fossil fuels or forced return to office. An utopic goal, but everything is at some point.

@afewbugs well, that’s one way to victimise yourself. By refusing to learn anything that might empower yourself and just wait for your tech overlords to magically start playing nice. Change has a price.

@afewbugs replace "use" by "try"

@afewbugs @alicemcalicepants gifting bootable USB sticks and showing people how to use them is a positive thing to do.

@afewbugs sometimes making a self-preservation step is hard. Doing the right thing is generally harder than doing the default thing. Yeah, some people can't make a change right now, but some people can, given enough reason to do so. Those who can't right now, might be able to in future, and knowing that a better option exists creates a better future opportunity. Especially when so many people are offering to help people through that transition.

@afewbugs right on, Jules! I used Linux several times for different lengths of time, but each time I finally gave up having to constantly fight the OS to make it do what I needed. I eventually just got fed up and dropped it.

@afewbugs This is a flawed argument, in that it aggressively dismisses the time consumption, expense, and availability restrictions of "the default option". That's a monopolist's logic.

Quite a few people in the replies seem to be missing my point, which is that the default option is the default option because it's easier. The non-standard option may well save time and effort in the long run, but in the immediate term you need to invest time and effort to make it work, which is something many people do not have the privilege to have available.

@afewbugs
Many of the responses here from Linux fanboys demonstrate perfectly how hostile much of the Linux space is.

Blaming everyone for not switching to Linux, when it's still a nightmare of incompatibility and the most common suggestion to any problem is "try a different distro", doesn't help.

I dual boot Ubuntu and Windows (and run multiple automation projects and servers on RaspberryPi variants). Windows is a better daily experiance.

@afewbugs dam truth

@afewbugs I've been using Linux as my daily driver for almost 20 years now. All I can say is this: For end-users, this is still a nightmare. Stuff breaks, it is incompatible with software the end-users need, alternatives to that software don't exist or are abysmal in the user experience.

"Just use Linux" is never a solution.

@afewbugs there is no “just use Linux”. I laugh every time I hear it.

Generally, it’s by people desperate to establish some level of dominance in the conversation because they’ve already gone through the learning curve for it. Privilege certainly plays a part.

For me, it’s a flag that tells me I don’t have to listen to another word they have to say.

@afewbugs as someone who started using Ubuntu recently, I think a lot of people don't realize that the barrier of entry isn't that high. I think a lot of distros can be a good alternative for people when they're struggling with windows, maybe on older hardware or their laptop when they might not use it for work.

@afewbugs @joachim I’m someone who feels ideologically closer to Linux but it’s been too intimidating and time-consuming for me to ever get into

@afewbugs ciao giacomo Côme andiamo? Te saluti da Alejandra ( della mancha) e franck wild!

@afewbugs Some Linux users aren't helpful to newbies, either. "Send me the terminal output" isn't an easy thing to do if you're not used to CLI.

@afewbugs@social.coop

We need to recognise you need a certain degree of privilege to have the capacity to complicate your life voluntarily.

@afewbugs This. Also, to be brutally honest:
While I am a very happy Linux user, I do recognize that with my prior machine, it was pretty much "dumb luck" that it ran as well as it did (and even then, the WiFi chip kept having weird issues that only went away after I replaced it with one that was recommended as being highly compatible with Linux), and I pretty much picked my current one out from a compatibility sheet.

@afewbugs I would say, it has nothing to do with real simplicity of the OS, but with purchasability as a bundle (machine and OS) and a lot of marketing. As long as one has to set up the OS by self, Windows is not more easy and many home users will not be able to solve Windows problems later without help.

@afewbugs and although I am not disabled there's quite a lack of proper support for things like screen readers under Linux desktop environments, whose development has been lagging a lot compared to some rather less useful features. This and the elitist attitude about many quirks (read: bugs) is usually what drives me away from recommending it to non technical people, although I've been using it for decades on personal devices.

@afewbugs I was thinking of starting a Linux Petting Zoo night

Where we have different versions of beginner Linux distros with different Desktop environments for people to touch and use for fun without pressure.

Maybe some prompts for learning as a scavenger hunt.

- find the app store
-go to "about this computer" in settings.
- enter terminal and type 'sudo neofetch"

Etc.

@afewbugs
Blaming people for this is shitty, absolutely, but i for one see it like domestic abuse situations, in a better world you should be able to tell the abuser to stop, but in ours the solution is to *GET OUT*. Demanding the abuser to stop the abusing doesn't tend to work. Leaving Big Tech is inconvenient, difficult, time consuming, etc., but is the only real solution to their ever-worsening abuse until things change enough that they're stopped, which might take many, many years.

@afewbugs “Just use Linux (on the desktop)” usually means “I have no real clue of Linux but an opinion”.

@afewbugs I appreciate that framing. Id love to jump back into Linux but don't have the time to mess with kernel blurgh or trying N oss apps to find the one that is OK and maintained

@afewbugs

I understand your point, but I have to ask - what more would you like to see being done?

From a technical perspective, installing Linux is easier than Windows at this point. It's certainly no worse! What else should 'evangelists' be working on?

@afewbugs Someine suggested I should start my own search engine, if I didn't like Google. Can you help me? 😉