@rysiek I use @Mojeek but sadly some results for me are bit underwhelming, then I switch to qwant which I find ok but they did have some sketchy things going on from what I remember (misinformation, remembered wrong, they only had partnerships from Microsoft and Huawei which are eh but def not rly super sketchy bad thing).

@rysiek searX ?!

@rysiek Qwant and Startpage I guess

@rysiek @Mojeek is often my go-to, but many people dislike it due to how different the search results are.

You may be interested in aggregating results using SearxNG, maybe? https://searx.space

@rysiek they have been using language models to replace the result pages’ titles and summary for a long time already (i think even google didn’t do that?). i switched to startpage at some point because i was fed up with its bullshit, but then it forces me to do captcha every now and then :neocat_baa:

@rysiek KAGI might be useful. See @jasonkoebler 's recent review: https://mastodon.social/@jasonkoebler/112207606932971467

@rysiek@mstdn.social SearX(NG) is good enough (i mostly use the instance hosted by disroot)

@rysiek

Eeeew,

@rysiek Huh. This is for real? I thought this was an April fools joke…

@rysiek
I've been using startpage for years.

@rysiek and it's partnered with Leo from Brave? Horror

@rysiek It's just a desktop browser option to use a bot. Don't use it if you don't want to? It doesn't say it's related to search results, in the reddit link.

@rysiek

Still early days, but I'm liking #Stract ... a new stand-alone search engine being developed by one person and (last I heard) run on a server in his basement.

#404Media also just published an article extolling a paid SE called #Kagi ... not sure I'm "there" yet (paying for search), but it sounds promising.

Oh yeah ... https://stract.com/

Hmm ... actually, even better, start here ... https://stract.com/about

@rysiek IS NOTHING SACRED!?!?!?!?

@rysiek this makes me sad.

@rysiek I love your description of 'AI' as a hallucinating mansplainer! Perfect :D .

@rysiek How do you know it will be a "hallucinating mansplainer in my results" ?

Why do you think it will?

Jumping to conclusions and then getting angry at those conclusions is not a very good way to get through life....

@rysiek The only truly based search engine that will never betray you is a SearXNG instance some guy is hosting in his basement near you. ​:blobthinkingcool:​

@rysiek
Search Engine that works, private and anonym? No Problem, enjoy:
https://swisscows.com/de

@rysiek https://www.startpage.com/

@rysiek Nooo, not DuckDuckGo, too!

@rysiek
i don't think its too bad that you should be jumping ship just yet.
The reddit post by DDG says it is just an addon for its browser and aiming for a freemium model.
It does not affects its search results and it allow speople to experiement with LLM whilst still respcting privacy.
I will continue to use DDG so long as their search results are not infected by AI noise.

@rysiek you don't have to use it if you don't want to. It only works if you tap on the 💬 icon. That doesn't make DuckDuckGo bad or bloated. And to be honest I prefer being able to use GPT without an account rather.

@rysiek Why not continue to use DDG but simply don't use the optional experimental functionality there?

This would give them valuable feedback for what percentage of their user base is interested in this technology.

From what I can see it's optional and an experiment, nothing they force on everyone?

@rysiek StartPage is pretty good

@rysiek I don’t think people realise DuckDuckGo is a Microsoft Bing operation skinned as privacy. It’s why they accidentally filtered terms critical of China at the same time as Bing did. I wouldn’t use it.

@rysiek I use Kagi, it's paid (so no ads or user tracking needed). It has optional AI, but it's based on sources (and it will mention those, like Wikipedia does).

@rysiek @MetaGer For me Metager has been pretty solid

https://metager.org

@rysiek https://eu.startpage.com/

@rysiek it really sucks! Even #Ecosia has an AI chat now. 🤮​

@ Those responsible for these engines, at least let us choose and give us the possibility to deactivate this crap, please. 🙏​

@rysiek

I feel the question of "what else is there" depends on what you're actually looking for.

If you're just looking to use a large index while minimizing the data you're sending back, then DuckDuckGo still works for that. DuckDuckGo and Qwant use Bing's index, while Startpage uses Google's index, and any of those would work for that purpose.

If you're looking for a independent index for general use, Mojeek probably has the largest index that is not Google, Bing, or Yandex.

@rysiek goddammit, just when their results started being decent enough for me to not use !g or !s as a crutch! JUST LET ME FIND THINGS FFS

@rysiek Horribly disappointing. Wonder where the money was deposited..?

@rysiek Kagi. I haven’t gone back to Google in months. With DDG that always often. DDG never improved and their quality was stuck with Bing.

@rysiek FWIW, Kagi has a well-developed and nuanced take on AI, it's not just "Integrate All The Things!"

The Brave thing is still concerning as hell, and AI in general is harmful, but Kagi seems to be more thoughtful than most as far as I can tell.

(I'm just a paying customer for Kagi, no other connections)

https://blog.kagi.com/kagi-ai-search

@rysiek I use StartPage in Firefox with an ad blocker plugin and it works quite well

@rysiek

#DuckDuckGo is already pretty useless without boolean search options, and it also ignores dates. So if you're trying to search for something from 2014, you can't. Nor can you exclude all the stupid amazon or pinterest posts, etc. It's useless junk. And now it's useless junk with a heaping pike of garbage on top.

@rysiek :blobsweats:

@rysiek you could build your own.

@rysiek I’ve been getting a bit wary of DDG ever since I heard ads for it on the radio, about a year ago. This just confirms that concern…

@rysiek It's too big of an opportunity to pass up when you can basically steal the whole internet

@rysiek Noo I have trusted DuckDuckGo duck, now they have betrayed my trust. :ohno:

@rysiek fortunately it looks like it's only in the DuckDuckGo browser. So if you're just using DDG in Firefox or something, it's not an immediate problem.

Edit: Other people are reporting that they're also having it advertised to them in mainstream browsers, so guessing there's some limited trialling going on as well?

@rysiek again? 🤦

@rysiek I've been using SearXNG and I like it - it does seem to cut through some of the BS.
Then there is Kagi, which is really good, but it's a 10$/mo subscription.

@rysiek DDG: disappointment of the decade. Digging their own graves, lol.

@rysiek I use Ecosia.org and it seems to have the same thing. Given that both of them use Bing as a back end, at least to some degree, I imagine this is a M$ pushed decision that they have to use. Not a fan, especially for Ecosia, who's whole mission is environmentalism. Very disingenuous.

@rysiek I just stood up a SearxNG instance after reading this

@rysiek I'd be down and like it a lot if they used an open-source uncensored AI for t5his, not the MS's garbage. Well, we'll wait and see how they're gonna deal with the backlash from the community

@rysiek https://stract.com/ but too young to be usable

@rysiek Recently I started using Ecosia, and it's not bad :)
It uses results from Bing.
But I believe you can also get results from Google, if you want to give up some more privacy.
And apparently, I planted 3 trees already :)

For Google like search results, I'll use Startpage. And for result not coming from big-tech, I like to use Brave search.

@rysiek if they'd just called it a search "summary" no-one would have worried ;-)

@rysiek Thankfully "AI Chat is only available in the free DuckDuckGo browser"

@rysiek +1 for stract, it's quite neat. That, plus searXNG and MetaGer are the ones I'm hopeful for.

@rysiek
as a reminder, tell a small hint which is worse.

some could interpret this toot in a way that i go back to google, it's equally bad.

i still think duckduckgo is less worse. actually a lot.

@rysiek Kagi has been good. They do have some AI addons but nothing that I’ve ever interacted with or been annoyed by.

@rysiek Ugh. I just moved there.🙄

@rysiek their search results were starting to look more and more like google. Last couple of months the results were lousy and commercial. This explains it.

@rysiek always vpn to your own host running all your happy tools. One being SearXNG. https://github.com/searxng/searxng

Goes in a docker easily. It’s nice having a multi engine that cleans and sanitizes along the way.

@rysiek Sick from the AI shit, fuck it.

@rysiek I have to wonder at this point, what was wrong with DDG search BEFORE adding this?

@rysiek
@sabrinacostell3

So that's why my DDG results have been shite lately.

@rysiek it's entirely within their raison d'etre to offer privacy preserving access to services they don't have themselves. Think of this as a VPN for AI access. I've used other search engines that did this for images and maps, at least as an alternative. If they do it then it avoids you being tempted to access them without privacy protections.

@rysiek But, of course. They are Microsoft.

@rysiek is this a genuine reason to leave? It's dumb, sure, but it's also sitting in a corner and can just be ignored or even hidden.

@rysiek I do like searx, but it really is a frontend to a lot of search engines that you can set on your preferences (currently using the searx.be instance)

@rysiek Oh no :-( Time to bring back webrings...

@rysiek what about arc?

@rysiek
RETVRN

#duckduckgo

@rysiek o żesz... 🤦🏻‍♀️

@rysiek kagi. It has AI crap, but it stays out of the way.

@rysiek I do not want AI, I do not want cookies, I do not want vendors buying my searches and webpage visits.

@rysiek retooting for "FuckFuckNo"

@rysiek I use DDG at home, and realised that I haven't seen some of the odd stuff that so many others have commented on. Because I don't use Google.

I want it to stay that way. Work does use Ecosia, which is better than Google too. But I know they have some issues as well.

If I want an AI answer, I will use an AI. If I want a web search, I want to use a web searcher. If there are none that will do that job, then the web is unusable.

@rysiek I use https://www.ecosia.org/

@rysiek SearXNG.ca is what I use.