Is the storage expectations for self-hosting ATProto including a relay really 5tb (with the expectation also that this will grow)? https://alice.bsky.sh/post/3laega7icmi2q
On Linode's default shared hosting that's getting into a full salary, like $55k/year, territory https://www.linode.com/pricing/
@cwebber Yeah, more or less. You're certainly not missing anything major in your analysis. Running a relay is already extremely expensive, and the cost of that is likely to explode if the number of app view services increases. Running an app view is also very expensive, and the cost will likely climb rapidly if there's ever more than 1 mainstream relay you have to subscribe to.
But hey, a PDS is barely more work than hosting a raw git repo, so it must be decentralized, right?
@cwebber@octodon.social I don't know if you really need that much for ATProto, but I just want to point out that Linode's storage prices, as much as I like them for hosting, are not cheap.
Self-hosting is obviously the cheapest, but if you really want something in the cloud, BackBlaze will give you $6/TB/month: https://www.backblaze.com/cloud-storage/pricing (so around $360/year for 5TB)
Something looks suspicious about the IA attack, and I suspect the goal is to change sentiment about *something*, probably the Internet Archive, but it's not clear what, and it may be more than one thing. It seems like someone probably paid a hacking agency to do this, very possibly a publishing house upset about copyright claims, and I say that especially because:
- "See you on Have I Been Pwned", but really, this is one of the least dramatic things to end up on HIBP of all time: it's names and email addresses sure, but all the passwords are properly hashed and there isn't much else. So why gloat about it?
- There seems to be an attempt to lower public impression of IA in terms of talking about its tech "held up with sticks". It is old tech, so maybe, but why the focus on that?
- If you analyze the HN thread about it for comments in terms of when posted, there were a bunch of sockpuppet accounts created almost immediately after the post was made, seemingly to add comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=Nathans220https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=haha112https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=19h00https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=Mr-Hyde
- An allegedly pro-palestinean militant hacking group is claiming responsibility, but their rationale doesn't make sense: they say it's because the IA is an American company, and the US is helping Israel. But why the IA *specifically*? This seems like a false flag operation either to draw attention away from the real perpetrators, or possibly to try to turn technically inclined people against pro-palestinean activists https://x.com/sn_darkmeta/status/1844104165192253945?s=46&t=sGbGJDwPtKqKmSzYvGAl1A
The IA *is* engaged with several fights with publishers and people who have beef on copyright grounds. It's entirely possible one of them hired a nation-state affiliated hacking group (of which there are quite a few) that had a side beef, or that group is trying to throw the public off its tracks, but regardless, sock puppets like this typically appear after a hacking attack when there's a paid organization.
Regardless, nobody else is keeping the internet's history alive, and yes, the IA has made some mistakes sometimes, but I stand behind them and wish their staff strength in dealing with this time.
Something looks suspicious about the IA attack, and I suspect the goal is to change sentiment about *something*, probably the Internet Archive, but it's not clear what, and it may be more than one thing. It seems like someone probably paid a hacking agency to do this, very possibly a publishing house upset about copyright claims, and I say that especially because:
Just on Youtube, searching "internet archive" produced a bunch of videos by no-name accounts in the last few hours running the "sticks and stones" talking point.
But the second-order effect is speculation about who did the hack, not thinking worse of IA. If it were the industry it's just bad propaganda, if it were a nation-state acting on their own, the disruption is probably desirable.
@cwebber plot twist: a right wing Israeli extremist organization did it as a way to reduce the accessibility of information and turn opinion against pro Palestinian people.
You don't have to be a programmer to take this position, but you do have to be comfortable with using and *learning* FOSS tooling (such as Emacs and Org-Mode, which are used heavily in the organization).
Non-traditionally CS paths to using FOSS tech are welcome; particularly excellent for someone who is early in their career as a free and open source enthusiast, or a humanities graduate student who uses technical tooling to organize their work, or someone who has established experience in the organizational end of FOSS ecosystems. If you feel that assisting in the organization of a FOSS nonprofit while using or learning particular FOSS tools is appealing, apply! https://spritely.institute/jobs/2024-09-12-technical-administrator.html
@cwebber@spritelyinst amazing job listing, even ignoring the domain specifics. Brief, highly specific, but well specified enough any number of people could fit. Vs typical long, actually quite generic, but with a set of requirements maybe nobody meets.
Still there's an evil module in my mind that wants to erase the left half of U so that the graphic says "Work with JS" :)
That persistence system, now fully integrated with Goblins, has quite some history! Internally, we call it "Aurie", which is the name of the animated character you see in the post (yes, I animated it)
Originally, Aurie was written by me as a standalone library on top of Goblins. However it was really, *really* hard to use, and we decided that it made most sense to make it more integrated in Goblins... and we have! Now Aurie is so easy to use, with an included macro, it's nearly automatic to make many actors use this persistence system... but it's not orthogonal persistence, it's not a snapshot by the language! It's clever engineering on top of a manual persistence approach that takes some briliant research and insights by Mark Miller and Jonathan Rees! (The blogpost says more!) Now you can use Aurie as Goblins' default integrated persistence system to save your program to disk, yes, but also to do upgrades and even to improve live hacking!
But it is @tsyesika who made Aurie into the REAL persistence system we have inside of Goblins now. It was much more effort to work out how to make something fully developed and integrated than it was to make my mockup, not to mention converting all of the Goblins standard library to support it!
That persistence system, now fully integrated with Goblins, has quite some history! Internally, we call it "Aurie", which is the name of the animated character you see in the post (yes, I animated it)
Software Freedom Conservancy (@conservancy) has raised over $132k but still needs $29k left to make their annual fundraiser. There's only 6 days left... if you have funding to give and are open to supporting them, it's definitely an organization that puts that money to very good use!
A couple of years ago I helped @conservancy with their fundraiser and actually made an *animated ascii art* program. (They also mailed out a physical postcard based on this design!) You could telnet in and watch it thank donors who contributed that year even :)
Fun fact, it ended up being an early test program of Spritely Goblins!
But OCapN isn't just for Spritely Goblins: thanks to a generous grant from @NGIZero, Spritely engineer (and fellow co-author/co-editor of ActivityPub!) @tsyesika has documented how it all works!
OCapN is in the pre-standards phase but thanks to this work already includes not only the core specifications, but also a test suite and an implementation guide!
We've already seen a Haskell implementation which passes the test suite for the parts it implements... we're excited to see more!
@cwebber this is amazing!!! I have a pet project of a network of “virtual tamagotchi”s that run on raspberry pi’s, communicating over MQTT. I’ve always wanted it to have meshing capabilities, this would be perfect.
A space shooter! Written in SCHEME! In your freaking BROWSER! With code by @dthompson and artwork by me!! And you can play it RIGHT NOW in a nightly browser! (Be sure to use a *nightly* build)
#SystemCrafters is doing a live stream about Guile Hoot. And also myself and Spritely's Hoot engineers @dthompson and @lispwitch will be making special appearances on the live stream! Tune in for @daviwil live exploring our tools for bringing Lisp/Scheme to the web as a first class citizen!
Also check out this title. It's the future. THE FUTURE!!!!!
#SystemCrafters is doing a live stream about Guile Hoot. And also myself and Spritely's Hoot engineers @dthompson and @lispwitch will be making special appearances on the live stream! Tune in for @daviwil live exploring our tools for bringing Lisp/Scheme to the web as a first class citizen!
GET READY! It's just about time for the System Crafters live stream about Spritely's Guile Hoot! With special guests from the Spritely Institute!!! https://youtube.com/live/Vd9zooWMOsM
Governance of FOSS projects is hard, especially around funding, but given the amount of discussion on here, you'd think there was an explosive mishandling of thousands of dollars of funds. There wasn't, and Tusky's budget is small, and afaict people the team generally has been acting in good faith and doing their best.
Anyway, from some of the conversations I've had, I know it's been exhausting and really difficult for some of the people involved in the project. Best to luck to everyone in terms of mental health and recovery from this.
Governance of FOSS projects is hard, especially around funding, but given the amount of discussion on here, you'd think there was an explosive mishandling of thousands of dollars of funds. There wasn't, and Tusky's budget is small, and afaict people the team generally...
@cwebber God this reminds me of the stupid blockchain stuff
Was it the ethereum guy who said “85 TB/year is totally fine” or something
Madness
@cwebber Yeah, more or less. You're certainly not missing anything major in your analysis. Running a relay is already extremely expensive, and the cost of that is likely to explode if the number of app view services increases. Running an app view is also very expensive, and the cost will likely climb rapidly if there's ever more than 1 mainstream relay you have to subscribe to.
But hey, a PDS is barely more work than hosting a raw git repo, so it must be decentralized, right?
@cwebber@octodon.social I don't know if you really need that much for ATProto, but I just want to point out that Linode's storage prices, as much as I like them for hosting, are not cheap.
Self-hosting is obviously the cheapest, but if you really want something in the cloud, BackBlaze will give you $6/TB/month: https://www.backblaze.com/cloud-storage/pricing (so around $360/year for 5TB)