@cwebber yeah. the narrative does seem to be fishier than the incident

@cwebber Who benefits the most from harming IA?

Publishers.

@cwebber even if we take the claims about infrastructure at face value, the solution would be funding the Internet Archive, not cancelling it

@cwebber For me that pro-palestinian group sounded somewhat fishy because IA is not involved in this conflict.
But I think I have explanation for that - they simply wanted to get attention for whatever they are trying to do and IA is good for that because it's really big site which almost everyone involved in cybersecurity and stuff uses.

@cwebber

This is just pure speculation on my part, but I suspect is that the true purpose of the attacks is to cripple online libraries, using Israel an excuse to stir hate and cause division in the left.

But why? What happens when you can post something online and then revise what you say some time later without any record that it was changed, or digital records, books, information etc gets taken down esp. in places where physical libraries become criminalized or dangerous to run?

@cwebber this seems entirely plausible and that feels crazy

@cwebber the most likely culprit is one of the many cybercrime-for-hire sites. Most likely for advertising, as these types of businesses often attack highly visible sites for free publicity, generally with very dubious justifications just like this. But it's equally plausible that someone bored just had a few hundred dollars burning a hole in their pocket. This sort of thing really isn't that expensive or hard to run and well within the capabilities of a run of the mill cybercrime shop.

@cwebber The IA is no one worth attacking. The pro-Palestinian ID is obvious nonsense and suggests someone who has no sympathy for such a cause. Far many more corps and orgs signify America than the IA. It all smacks of someone with a beef who is probably not very nice in general.

@cwebber It's all to undermine trust in the IA so that the proles stay good little consumers who pay monthly subscription fees for the privilege of accessing the latest product while forgetting all about the existence of vintage media and the old ways

@cwebber I don't see it.

IA has insecure tech, not just old tech. I've reported a vuln about them revealing user emails in the past and they did nothing about it.

Many people create HN accounts to comment, this isn't necessarily suspicious.

The pro-palestinian group provided zero proof that they're behind this.

@cwebber As I've repeated elsewhere, three categories make sense to me in this scenario:

a) Attention-seeking / sheer bloody-mindedness.
b) General disruptive effect.
c) Specific disruptive effect.

It might just be someone, trying to make the west feel insecure?

There are several actors who want that, so I'm not pointing.

@cwebber @ricmac Wait, seriously? You’re promulgating a theory that a BOOK PUBLISHER hired a hacking group to attack Internet Archive? That is genuinely nutty. I think you should both know better.

1. They wouldn’t know how.
2. The attack was certain to create a wave of sympathy and support for the victim (and rightly so).
3. Publishers did have a narrow grievance with one of the least important IA programs. But they solved that via the legal system.

@cwebber I'm old enough to remember 9/11: the first 20, 30 media-chaotic minutes after the second plane hit, before the narrative settled on Bin Laden, there was all kinda loose talk about the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, which I would have really enjoyed that laugh if I wasn't watching burning people jumping outta buildings

@cwebber I share your impressions about all this.

@cwebber It's definitely been targeted.

Just on Youtube, searching "internet archive" produced a bunch of videos by no-name accounts in the last few hours running the "sticks and stones" talking point.

But the second-order effect is speculation about who did the hack, not thinking worse of IA. If it were the industry it's just bad propaganda, if it were a nation-state acting on their own, the disruption is probably desirable.