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eevee 🦊

finally upgraded to kde 6, which defaulted to a wayland session, giving me my very first wayland experience: crashing back to the login screen without even making it far enough to draw wallpaper

goat

@eevee I wanted to give the ol' "let's see if the Linux desktop experience is viable for me" another try on the weekend and immediately failed at "every window is flickering" among other issues, precisely because the nvidia driver is apparently very broken with Wayland and the only workaround is going back to X, which... Plasma 6 dropped. Oh well, maybe in another year.

nina

@eevee last time I tried kde wayland session it wasn't very stable but i figured they had fixed it by now...

meanwhile running gnome on wayland for like 4 years at this point without apparent issues, but... the x session is wonky there instead

Claire

@eevee I think back on birdsite I have a tweet wondering how many years it'll be before Wayland will be ready for even 50% of experienced users to swap over to, let alone good enough to use as default everywhere

That tweet is from 2012

Your experience here isn't that much worse than the last few times I've (deliberately) tried it, yet KDE has the 2nd best support for it after GNOME last I checked

(and before anyone jumps in, yes, some attempts were on nvidia, but most recently was with an amd card, and I've even tried with integrated graphics on an entirely different machine - all have had their problems)

Like, graphics stuff is hard, let alone redesigning a new protocol from ground up and trying to manage migration, backwards compat via xwayland, proprietary driver blobs...I get that

Still, makes me wonder where on earth all the claims it's basically ready to be pushed as default everywhere keep coming from - I've never had any hardware combination that's played nice with it and even if you get it stable, there's then plenty of software that even if they have wayland support or can be run in xwayland still have major UX issues

@eevee I think back on birdsite I have a tweet wondering how many years it'll be before Wayland will be ready for even 50% of experienced users to swap over to, let alone good enough to use as default everywhere

That tweet is from 2012

Your experience here isn't that much worse than the last few times I've (deliberately) tried it, yet KDE has the 2nd best support for it after GNOME last I checked

eevee 🦊

computer people who like C too much: you don't truly understand what you're doing unless you understand assembly, the golden ideal of programming

me, whispering in their ear as i pass, a ghostly voice on the wind: assembly is dynamically typed

SnoopJ

@eevee me, frothing at the mouth: CPUs are virtual machines

King Calyo Delphi

@eevee I'm probably being a bit too straight-faced for the obvious joke but I can't help but ask...

Assembly doesn't even have data types, does it?

All it cares about is what memory addresses need to be accessed as inputs to the instruction and what address needs to receive the output, yea?

eevee 🦊

rather frustrating to keep seeing "it's impossible to release software for linux, simply rely on wine instead" largely coming from developers, who (a) are getting paid for this and (b) don't have to deal with actually running what they've released

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IEEE 1149.1

@eevee A, its not hard to make software for linux, all the tools are there, many of them are even well documented and open source. B, why isn't wine deprecated yet? Can we like, get proton for normal software?

★ Amy Star ★ :verified:​

@eevee meanwhile, I'm over here contributing to an open source Touhou fan game that prioritizes Linux so hard that we compile for Windows *on Linux* (using llvm-mingw)

it is a horrific hassle to do so but it's the principle of the thing. also honestly we probably couldn't do it with Windows's native tools at this point

we still have issues with older versions of Linux due to libc minimum version compatibility though, so minimum platform targets remain a thing. we have a whole workflow on Open Build System for various Linux distros and package managers but it's been years since we looked at it and bitrot is a serious concern at this point

@eevee meanwhile, I'm over here contributing to an open source Touhou fan game that prioritizes Linux so hard that we compile for Windows *on Linux* (using llvm-mingw)

it is a horrific hassle to do so but it's the principle of the thing. also honestly we probably couldn't do it with Windows's native tools at this point

pieq

@eevee it all boils down to work, and how much money it brings.

Officially stating that your game is compatible with Linux means you have to bring official support to this platform. That's potentially a lot of work (and the legend goes that Linux users are very demanding).

Letting enthusiasts say "this game works well with Proton!" means your game will probably still sell on Linux and you don't have to provide any kind of tech support!

eevee 🦊

ohhhhh sorry its too hard to release our game on linux, it uses advanced windows-only features such as "reading keyboard input" and "drawing to a graphics buffer"

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Gabbo the wafrn guy :neocat_floof_devil_256: (not a vampire)

@eevee@queer.partyI gotta say some engines sell to you is super easy and nope.

case in point: unity and rust game

Efi (nap pet) 🦊💤

@eevee "sorry, my game is linux only because I couldn't find an opensource implementation of any drivers for any video card for windows, so I couldn't even get a graphics context going"

Maddie (NEW! FUNKY MODE!) :verifiedtrans:
@eevee it wouldn't be feasible due to the security restrictions of wayland
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