Gregory's Serverohhhhh sorry its too hard to release our game on linux, it uses advanced windows-only features such as "reading keyboard input" and "drawing to a graphics buffer"
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72 comments
  @eevee id as in id software? do their recent games really run natively on linux? genuinely interested, because I vaguely remember this from the carmack days https://www.phoronix.com/news/MTI5NTA and not sure if played anything past quake II on linux. @jberg  @eevee I am choosing to read this as the setup for a silly "I drink it all the time" joke rather than accept the reality that you have to say it because people are presenting it to you like the problem isn't that companies simply refuse to treat Linux as a valid target platform for literally anything @eevee "just run it in Proton" cool suggestion, the cool indie game I just bought that literally runs on one of the Big Two engines just straight up won't boot through Proton! :) @glairedaggers i bought a windows puzzle game from like 2001 and played it in wine and then it updated and stopped working and i was so mad i wrote an emulator for that specific game @eevee Yeah, if I'd been using Linux as my daily driver for 20 years I'd be an alcoholic too. /j @benjistokman bethesda owns doom and quake. doom 1 2 3 and quake 1 2 3 4 all have id-supplied linux ports. bethesda put these games on steam for linux only  @eevee For DOOM I think they did some bizzare in-house remake in Unity or something. The giveaway was a few megabytes of game that was just the WAD files I needed for gzdoom et. al. suddenly balooning into a gig-plus of a port I will never use. Thanks Bethesda. https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom_Classic_Unity_port (Yes yes Unity has a Linux build and it might even work on one or two distributions if you're using Pulse but not Pipe and not raw ALSA and X and not Wayland and bluh bluh bluh.)   @eevee@queer.party b-but, but our totally not rootkit drm/anti-cheat needs administrator access and be able exploit windows specific vulnerabilities to embed itself in the system, so we can guarantee you're playing fair!! @rail@bark.lgbt @eevee@queer.party because like 90% of the time they are windows versions with built-in wine and wined3d (not even dxvk) @rail@bark.lgbt @eevee@queer.party unfortunately, this is true, sometimes i have to switch games to the Windows version instead of the native one to get them to work. Valve also agrees with this and started telling devs to target windows and proton  @rail @eevee last time i bought a game that had a native linux port, it ran better than the windows version
people on the fan discord i'm on for it (until it stopped due to a recent remaster and other, different bugs appeared) complained about bugs and performance problems i'd never even thought possible from my experience with the game  my actual literal job involves shipping binaries that have wide linux compatibility--that are simpler than games--and my solution to this ended up being "compile them to wasm and offload the problem to the developers of the wasm engine" this isn't literally the same as "just tell them to use proton" because that's how it works elsewhere too, but it's kinda close  @whitequark @eevee @rail Static link them? User-kernel interface is rock solid stable. It's DLL hell that's not. @whitequark @eevee @rail Unfortunately OpenGL/GPU usage depends on DLL hell because of bad architecture. I've beent trying to get this fixed for over a decade. But pretty much anything else is fine to static link. @dalias @eevee @rail what makes these two problems similar is that the core need is "build something for exactly one ABI/platform". I could statically link them which would reduce the amount of different builds to manage to something like... 6 or 7 depending on how i'm feeling (windows x86/x64, macos x64/arm64, linux x64/arm32/arm64); by shipping wasm i build exactly one artifact that runs on most of those @dalias a significant other reason why i used this is because autotools on windows is hell and yosys uses autotools instead of cmake, and this way i never have to use cygwin or some other cursed shit like that  @whitequark @dalias using autotools is basically saying "fuck windows". Sure you can get it to work but it's just not worth it, better to write a simple CMakeLists.txt and go on with your life 😀  @Paxxi @whitequark @dalias Huh? I've rarely had trouble compiling stuff that uses autotools on Windows, unlike most other build systems. @whitequark @eevee @rail my last job involved this as well, and my solution involved building a custom dynamic libc fork designed for the purpose it wasn't actually hard to do, but the fact that nobody had done it before was pretty mind-boggling still isn't in upstream because mailing-list-based development is an absolute joke  @whitequark @rail [-eevee since she doesn't seem to want to get into this] the example that sticks out in my mind is this one @hierarchon @whitequark @rail this is a whole constellation of tickets about game developers going out of their way to /violate/ the linux ABI and then multiple distributions going out of their way to keep those games working anyway  @whitequark @eevee @rail hey now, the Linux kernel syscall ABI is extremely stable. It just doesn't help you much if you're writing anything other than a text-based game.  @eevee @rail fully convinced wsl was made by punished Microsoft at their lowest point. They just released the openssh fork for Linux and were having a rough time with cloud being 99% not them. Now proton won't stop getting better and azure customers are either office/Xbox/windows in house services or big companies basically forced to use it for office or continued windows license discounts.
@eevee@queer.party nah those are bullshit, the real excuse devs have is "there's proton anyway porting is not necessary"  @eevee so their game is "unknown" on Steam Deck instead of "Great on Steam Deck" Fine with me; I think Deck is going to be moving the needle on compatibility with Linux via Deck compatibility. They're forced to care about it now. Valve frequently gets accused of "doing nothing after The Orange Box", but turns out they've been doing an awful lot. "Windows-only" games are still a pile of poo, though.  My games are Linux Focused, as I dev in Linux and export to Linux first, besides my recent one that's mobile and web based. But even then, Godot, Unity and UE can export to Linux and doesn't really have a problem unless you end up using a plugin or extension that calls for W32 APIs. But these people aren't Linux focused anyways. It's hard, but at least Linux gets more games every year and does have games. Better trend than a decade ago. Them: "Windows has a more stable ABI" @eevee "linux build too hard" has the same flavour as "women are too difficult to animate" @eevee as someone who has used Linux for like 11 years now I find this so frustrating as well.  @eevee@queer.partyI gotta say some engines sell to you is super easy and nope. case in point: unity and rust game  @eevee "sorry, my game is linux only because I couldn't find an opensource implementation of any drivers for any video card for windows, so I couldn't even get a graphics context going" @eevee it wouldn't be feasible due to the security restrictions of wayland
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or in the case of bethesda, we bought a game that already ran on linux and only put the windows version on steam because fuck you