Gregory's Serverwhat do we have to do to make the #ActivityPub plugin attractive to more #WordPress users? We are currently at 4000+ active users on WordPress.org + the WordPress.com users.
Matthias Pfefferle
89 comments
Mastodon Migration
I think what Stefan may be talking about is a kind of directory that lists available fediverse wordpress blog accounts, perhaps along with the profile description and gives you the option to follow them. Started something like that here https://mastodonmigration.wordpress.com/2023/10/13/wordpress-blog-fediverse-accounts/ , but have not kept it up. 
Florian Schmidt
@mastodonmigration
Stefan MΓΌnz
@pfefferle That's a fine overview for the spreading of the plugin, but it doesn't offer any fediverse addresses to follow. Even if I find a single user instance listed there, for example https://www.bachhausen.de, I don't find it's fediverse addresse as long as the author doesn't mention it. If it's possible to aggregate all servers and blogs using the plugin, shouldn't it also be possible to aggregate all fediverse addresses used there?
Florian Schmidt
@pfefferle 
Matthias Pfefferle
@kranzkrone I do not want to force it, I want to understand if there are any needs, we missed to address
Stefan
@pfefferle Maybe not everyone wants to use the Plugin in their Blog.
Rodrigo Ghedin
@kranzkrone @pfefferle oh, there are multiple areas for improvement. I'm all in against shady growth tactics; improve the product to appeal to more users isn't that.
Robert @ Tech Addressed
@pfefferle I've tried multiple times to get it working on my WP site and it never seems to work and I haven't really had time to devote to troubleshooting it. 
Franz Graf
@techaddressed @pfefferle
lifewithtrees
@techaddressed @pfefferle I have a WordPress site to do it too but have not yet done it as there were limitations on which account it connected with iirc. The support team at WordPress didn't know much about it. Like I didn't want it to connect to a new instance i set up related to the wordpress account, but an already existing fedi account
Rodrigo Ghedin
@lifewithtrees @techaddressed @pfefferle I guess this besides the point of the plugin. Its purpose is to transform a WP site in a fediverse instance.
lifewithtrees
@manualdousuario @techaddressed @pfefferle thing is I have a mastodon account already...all I want is to connect my current mastodon account with my current website...the rest, while I understand it's function, is too much work. It needs to be as easy as adding a "publish to facebook" button using whatever acounts they want to have people use it in a bigger way. Maybe it's the wrong plug-in for this then
Matthias Pfefferle
@lifewithtrees @manualdousuario @techaddressed I understand your needs, but this is really a completely different use case and solved by a lot of other plugins including Jetpack.
lifewithtrees
@pfefferle @manualdousuario @techaddressed I simply want to connect mastodon to WordPress without setting up a new mastodon account. Jetpack may do that long term, but I haven't seen it yet
Rodrigo Ghedin
@lifewithtrees @techaddressed @pfefferle yeah, that's de wrong plugin for that. Btw, I noticed you don't even added your site and verified it here. This doesn't solve your issue, but it's a good first step to tight both platforms: https://joinmastodon.org/verification
lifewithtrees
@manualdousuario @techaddressed @pfefferle it's not mine , it's someone who is an artist who has a mastodon account and would like help to share their art from WordPress to mastodon. I am trying to help them. This is a real use case
Nick Bohle πͺπΊ
@pfefferle Gute Frage. 1. Es sollte funktionieren. (Hat es bei mir - Ionos - leider nicht) 2. Siehe 1.
Matthias Pfefferle
@NickBohle IONOS hatte ich aber getestetβ¦ ich kannte da ein paar Leute π lass mich wissen wenn ich helfen kann!
Jan Boddez
@pfefferle Iβd love it if its performance could be improved; in my case, the same server that ran Mastodon effortlessly still has (some) issues running WordPress + the plugin. Also, documentation (on possible performance tweaks, the various filters, custom templates, maybe local-only posts, etc.). A lot can be done through filters even if it isnβt directly supported (yet), but a few more examples would be nice. (Of course, not everyone likes to tinker β¦)
dominik schwind
@pfefferle maybe federate (own) comments as well? And I guess a lot of WP user aren't really using it to run their private website anymore and brochure sites etc. might not care either way
Adam S. Smith
I think I've suggested it previously, but since hashtags are crucial for discoverability, Similarly, for sites with custom taxonomies beyond the default tags and categories, it would be great if those custom taxonomies were also converted to hashtags.
Paul de Ferney
@pfefferle I have a site I'd like to add it to, but it's not primarily a blog and I need to auto-publish other WP post types. I also need to understand better which account can be linked to it as well as the fediquette around automatic toots. 
Tim Chambers
@pfefferle Tap some of those 4,000 bloggers to blog about the benefits they have seen - more engagement, more reachβ¦.
Mastodon Migration
This and promote those benefit discussions using a Fediverse account dedicated to advancing this capability. This account should also contain the directory discussed above, as well as how to instructions. Kind of a one stop Fediverse shop for WP integration. If the account posts regularly accounts like @tchambers, @feditips, this account and other promoters will certainly boost regularly. 
Fedi.Tips π
@mastodonmigration @tchambers @pfefferle Yeah, I'd agree with having a dedicated account for this, other Fedi platforms have dedicated accounts so it would make sense for AP-WP to have one too? The account could publish when the latest updates happen, ask for feedback, point people towards the support forum etc. Also, would be good if you cited selected example accounts so people can say "Hey that looks nice, I think I'll try it too!" 
Laurens Hof
@pfefferle I think the ecosystem around it, and the awareness that comes with it, needs to grow quite a bit still. the real power of the plugin starts to unlock once you also have another fedi account with some followers already so that you can boost your wordpress posts to them and you can kickstart some engagement. That said, Im lucky enough to have that, and once you do that, it is a massive boost to engagement
Laurens Hof
@pfefferle I think there is a broad awareness among writers at this point that most people do not click on links on social media. So boosting the post as an entire body of text that you can read directly in your fedi client of choice is showing a massive increase in engagement for me, as you sidestep the not-clicking-links problem. 2/3
Laurens Hof
@pfefferle This is all great ofcourse, but I wouldnt underestimate the shift in mindset that this requires. Most writing/blogging/journalism has a very strong implicit mindset of getting people to go to your place to read the content there. Making the best of the plugin turns that around, where your blog is now effectively an archive and 'homebase', and you send it out away from to other people, instead of luring people towards you.
Laurens Hof
@pfefferle oh and a low-prio feature request: id like the ability to not send the header image of a blog into the fediverse. it looks kinda weird to have a random image attached to your fedi post. but now my blog posts dont have header images, which also is a bit of a shame
Mastodon Migration
Really interesting point. From experience, the posts generated for Mastodon need to be formatted with the idea that it is being sent to the Fediverse. Images are avoided because only want the primary image to show up, need to repeat the title or it doesn't show up. Limit character formatting etc. Really using it as a Fediverse long form posting tool, not a Wordpress blog. Perhaps the ability to select posts on a post by post basis to either send to the Fediverse or not? 
Jon
@laurenshof Agreed, having the full post available directly on the fediverse without clicking has a lot of value. But without a high-profile account to boost, discoverability is very challenging (as for any single-user fediverse instance) @pfefferle A wordpress-run relay (opt-in for all sites using the plugin) could potentially help here If .social and some of the other big sites picked it up. 
Nathan Schneider
@pfefferle I ended up going with Post to Mastodon on my most recent WP site because I want features like replies and the like, but I don't want them as comments on the site. Also, the site is a subset of a larger org, so I want its posts to go on the parent org's account. 
Simon Wood
@pfefferle @fediversereport I think the recent threaded comments release will really help. Also maybe federating replies from logged in users? Enabling local and fedi commenters to interact with each other more should help catalyse discussion and engagement. 
Nathan Schneider
@pfefferle to me it also takes a kind of shift in mindset to think of the blog as coterminous with the social node. I am interested in that approach but feel cognizant of the fact that I am not there yet in my thinking.
Mastodon Migration
A few things: 1. From a technical standpoint one thing that would help if it is possible is for the fediverse versions to show up immediately once the wordpress fediverse account address is followed. It is pretty tough to say follow this account, now wait for them to post something new. Understand that this may be impossible. more...
Mastodon Migration
2. Name some things. @tchambers has suggested "fediblog" for the wordpress fediverse address. It doesn't matter what you call it, but naming things and explaining to people in a short description how it all works is key. People just don't get it. 3. Perhaps some way to "log in" to the "fediblog" account on the Mastodon side and interact with it. Maybe to update the profile and reply to comments. Understand that this may be impossible.
Mastodon Migration
But! Please do not interpret these comments as criticism of the capability you have created. It is AMAZING and WONDERFUL! And with some promotion and time for the word to spread it will certainly become a mainstay of the Fediverse! Great job! 
Mx. Eddie R
@mastodonmigration @pfefferle 
Alex M. Dunne
Hello and thank you for the plugins. My WP blog has become so low traffic (after ~23 years) that the use case of federating posts & comments is questionable. Gonna try an A/B test of Mastodon versus WordPress to see where engagement is higher...
MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$
@pfefferle
Ask wordpres.com to sponsor some kind of plebiscite/contest with awards for the best blog ... with active activitypub.
HeathenStorm
@pfefferle Some great suggestions already. For me, the ability to fine tune how the Fediverse profile is presented would be great. I believe thereβs some work on the roadmap to better define how the Header Image, Icon, Biography and other profile details are populated. It would be good as well to be able to add validated links to the profile at the blog level. There may be a capacity to do this in the separate webfinger and nodeinfo plugins, but those are too opaque for a non-technical admin.
Marty Fouts
@pfefferle the thing that would make it more attractive to me is probably out of scope for you: I host my blog at Dreamhost and their tools mean that your plugin wonβt work out of the box there. I donβt have the bandwidth to debug this so I donβt use the plugin.
Matthias Pfefferle
@MartyFouts I already tried to get in touch with some of the big WordPress Hosters to see how we could get it to work on their infrastructure, but mostly it was frustrating. I think ActivityPub (in the WordPress area) is not present enough to force Hosters to support it.
Marty Fouts
@pfefferle I suspected as much. I think the only solution is for customers of the hosting companies to contact their tech support to work out a solution. The only role you might play in this would be to add such solutions to a FAQ. But that requires a user who wants to both work with the hosting company and help document the solution.
DELETED
@pfefferle I think too much knowledge is still assumed. If I remember right, for example, there's nowhere that tells me how to change the avatar and header in my profile. Mastodon apps canβt do it, and I have no idea how to do it on Wordpress. A FAQ would be handy, but on Wordpress and not on daunting places like GitHub or whatnot that the average person can't do anything with π
Matthias Pfefferle
@69francs that is maybe because most users assume that it works the same way as a Mastodon instance. With WordPress I tried to not introduce a lot of new settings, but re-use whatβs already there. So to set/change the avatar, you simply have to change your profiles avatar or the site-icon.
Kevin Westbrook
@69francs @pfefferle That is partly my problem. I am sure I want to use this, but nothing I have read about it has really helped me to understand how it works, let alone the tips and tricks to make it as good as possible. Lots of the comments on this thread have only confirmed that feeling for me. Finally, I use Dreamhost, so it doesn't look like I can use it yet anyway. So, my summary is, the information on it needs to be much more accessible.
Mark Connolly π» π΄πΌββοΈ (he, him, his)
@pfefferle @fediversereport FWIW, I installed the plugin some time ago but canβt follow the blog from my Mastodon account. I just see an endless βpendingβ state.
Mark Connolly π» π΄πΌββοΈ (he, him, his)
EDIT: I tooted too soon. @blog still shows as pending (or βYou requested to follow themβ, depending on the Mastodon client Iβm using). ββ Now we just need to get a new blog post published so it will show up as a post on Mastodon. π
Matthias Pfefferle
@uxmark @fediversereport @blog I will see if I can find something next week. Please ping me if I forget it!
Mark Connolly π» π΄πΌββοΈ (he, him, his)
@pfefferle @fediversereport @blog Iβll do that. Thanks Matthias.
Caspar
@pfefferle Decouple the user experience from WordPress?
Matthias Pfefferle
@caspar that's exactly what i tried to avoid. i didn't want to turn WordPress into a social network, but to make WordPress part of a network. my idea was that it should simply work and that everyone (in the best case) should be able to continue using WordPress as before. with the small addition that you can now subscribe via ActivityPub in addition to RSS and the small but nice addition of the backchannel. But maybe I was wrong!?!
Caspar
@pfefferle I see, so I got it backwards. π Also just re-read your post and deleted the rest of this reply I had typed up earlier. Partner with canonical players (if not happening already) to do this user research in their communities perhaps? 
Kev Quirk
@pfefferle I think itβs a combination of things. Firstly, not many people have heard of ActivityPub (relatively speaking). Second (and probably more importantly) for many people I think a website/blog and social media are 2 separate use cases, so they may not want to integrate the 2. π€·ββοΈ
Dennis Nunes
@pfefferle When people comment from the fediverse to a blog post, and it gets a comment from another blog reader on the fediverse comment, would it be possible to the blog user comment's to appear on the fediverse like @user@blogDomain ?
Rodrigo Ghedin
@pfefferle Here's an idea, not sure if it increases usage, but would be neat: allow custom post content configuration for each post type available. I publish, besides posts and pages, podcasts and forums topics (each one with specific post types) in my WordPress instance. I'd love to add forums topics to ActivityPub, but I can't right now because their need some indication that it's a forums topic, and not a post.
Matthias Pfefferle
@manualdousuario good point... I think this is mainly an UI issue... I have no idea how to do that nicely... just talked about that with @linos and @ruru4143 @mattwiebe maybe we should add that to our thoughts about using Block-Editor-Templates for that.
Rodrigo Ghedin
@pfefferle @linos @ruru4143 @mattwiebe Awesome! I jut hope an eventual implementation doesn't rely entirely on blocks/Gutenberg. I, for one, don't use it β instead, I'm still using Classic Editor and hope to keep this way for the foreseeable future
Matthias Pfefferle
@manualdousuario @linos @ruru4143 @mattwiebe oh! I think it is hard to resolve it the classic way! there is a possibility to handle that using filters, but that requires some code... 
ch0ccyra1n :she_her:
@pfefferle enabling by default would be ideal imo, albeit maybe not the most realistic |
@pfefferle Is there a kind of directory of those users available? I like the idea to enrich my timeline with some blog articles, but how can I find wordpress authors with fediverse addresses?