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bapt :smug:

@TechConnectify I wish someone would make a Mastodon fork (or just a client?) with more algorithmic stuff (timeline sorting, recommended content, reply filtering...). As an option.

I get that some people are ideologically opposed to it, but I don't care; I don't like algorithms when they're built to make money off of my data, I like them when they improve the UX, like they can in that case.

2 Dec 2023 at 16:24 | Wall-to-wall | Open on mastodon.social
28 comments | Expand all CWs
Jacob Hoarston

@outadoc @TechConnectify

I find it frustrating having to defend the idea that the previous service I used for a decade actually had some things I liked and would continue to like to see.

2 Dec 2023 at 16:26 | Open on mastodon.social
bapt :smug:

@jacob_hst @TechConnectify Same. Especially when those things are clearly what's lacking to make the platform more popular, and when it's so easy to make them opt-in (either to users or to server admins), without affecting the experience of others.

My hope is that Threads might become that platform for users who want more algorithmic features (if they ever ship ActivityPub support...).

EDIT: to clarify, I would much prefer a Mastodon fork, but... not sure we'll ever see one

2 Dec 2023 at 16:30 | Open on mastodon.social
Kevin Mirsky :donor:

@outadoc @TechConnectify Additionally, the "anti-algorithm" people don't seem to realize 'chronological sorting' is an algorithm too, with its own impacts. It rewards the fastest, most online users by putting them at the top.

2 Dec 2023 at 16:36 | Open on infosec.exchange
Technology Connections

@kevinmirsky @outadoc and also means nobody's gonna see that their point was made a dozen times before.

Sorting replies by popularity had some good effects, too!

2 Dec 2023 at 16:42 | Open on mas.to
Kye Fox

@TechConnectify @kevinmirsky @outadoc This kind of reply tends to be so stock, sorting by alphabetical might keep the 3rd+ person from saying it and make #2 consider deleting

2 Dec 2023 at 16:55 | Open on tech.lgbt
root42

@TechConnectify @kevinmirsky @outadoc yes, these are all things that are possible in the client alone. I think we should create some tickets for our favorite clients. There are so many talented programmers here… maybe some can help?

2 Dec 2023 at 17:31 | Open on chaos.social
_dmh

@root42
That would only help if your client or server are aware of all the replies to a particular post, which they often won't be
@TechConnectify @kevinmirsky @outadoc

3 Dec 2023 at 0:11 | Open on mastodon.social
root42

@_dmh @TechConnectify @kevinmirsky @outadoc …but then those other replies don’t matter, as you don’t see them anyway…? All the replies you have, you can sort, collate and filter as you wish. This is a purely technical issue. There is nothing that would block my client from sorting and filtering the replies it’s supposed to display to me.

3 Dec 2023 at 7:57 | Open on chaos.social
_dmh

@root42
But if it's meant to discourage people from posting similar messages, it can't, because there might be similar messages from people your server doesn't know about.
@TechConnectify @kevinmirsky @outadoc

3 Dec 2023 at 10:00 | Open on mastodon.social
Stephen Bell

@kevinmirsky @outadoc @TechConnectify The chronological filter is also a geography filter. You’re way less likely to see the posts of people in distant time zones who post while you’re sleeping.

2 Dec 2023 at 16:47 | Open on indieweb.social
Ruby Witch

@stephenjbell @kevinmirsky @outadoc @TechConnectify

I think this depends on how many people you're following/mention you as well. I am able to scroll through my entire timeline and get caught up to where I was yesterday before I start replying to people today. I don't think I miss anything from any time zones.

Getting "caught up" was not a possibility for me in an algorithm-driven social media space.

2 Dec 2023 at 17:26 | Open on mastodon.sdf.org
Stephen Bell

@kinosian @kevinmirsky @outadoc @TechConnectify I guess that’s true. Although the more people you follow, the less likely it is that you’ll want to or be able to catch up completely.

2 Dec 2023 at 18:24 | Open on indieweb.social
Tobias Hellgren

@kevinmirsky I've already had to unfollow two-three popular accounts here because their posts dominated the time line.

2 Dec 2023 at 20:56 | Open on mastodon.chuggybumba.com
Hector Sanchez

@outadoc @TechConnectify oh, man. I wish I had a localized timeline. Too much US stuff sometimes

2 Dec 2023 at 16:39 | Open on mastodon.online
Cybarbie

@outadoc Or maybe just a content script/extension. The default web client for mastodon is pretty poor UX imo.

Not sure what the problem is here? He has a lot of hateful replies or many replies to other replies telling him to block this or just lots of spammy replies?

Must be hella bad as this sounds a bit unhinged.

Anyway I raised an feature request (something you can't do on Twitter) for disable replies, follower only replies but who knows if it will ever get implemented.

2 Dec 2023 at 16:50 | Open on mastodon.social
Technology Connections

@nf3xn @outadoc Did you have to use the word "unhinged"?

Anyway, here's a simple thing that would make my life a lot easier:

If notifications were stacked, I could see "oh, this post has 150 replies" without SEEING EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

I think what gets lost on a lot of folks is that with this many followers, any time I say anything remotely controversial (which is often a surprise!) there is a lot of stuff I don't need or even WANT to see.

2 Dec 2023 at 16:56 | Open on mas.to
Technology Connections

@nf3xn @outadoc Right now, everything is signal which means that everything is noise.

I'm sure my perspective isn't the average one - smaller accounts probably like how raw and bare metal the experience is here.

I'm trying my hardest to say (as tactfully as I can) that this does not work at scale - and if this platform is to truly be an alternative to corporate services, that needs to be figured out and fast.

2 Dec 2023 at 16:57 | Open on mas.to
A* Ulven
@TechConnectify @nf3xn @outadoc The usual response to "Mastodon has scale problems" is "we don't want to scale, actually, because scaling is bad, we aren't Twitter"
2 Dec 2023 at 17:00 | Open on blob.cat
ivory

@TechConnectify @nf3xn @outadoc As a frequent and relatively decent sized account on Fedi, and one of the larger ones focused on comedy, I have raised this concern before towards our instance operator, who runs their own forked version of Mastodon.

I think that combining notifications would enable you to have a more enjoyable experience, without the headache of making a post that jives just right with the community.

2 Dec 2023 at 17:12 | Open on wetdry.world
Jeremy Dyer

@TechConnectify @nf3xn @outadoc
My account is as small as can be and even I've hit the scaling issues on I post one cute puppy picture and suddenly I have dozens of responses with no clear way to figure out what does and does not need my attention. Can't imagine what that must look like when you hit *hundreds* of responses.

I like Mastodon as a platform, but I agree 100% that it needs to figure out how to handle large threads in a low-stress way.

@TechConnectify @nf3xn @outadoc
My account is as small as can be and even I've hit the scaling issues on I post one cute puppy picture and suddenly I have dozens of responses with no clear way to figure out what does and does not need my attention. Can't imagine what that must look like when you hit *hundreds* of responses.

2 Dec 2023 at 18:47 | Open on mastodon.sdf.org
V :ct_logo:

i've always been mixed on the experience ever since ive first tried activitypub based socials in 2019.
its nice to have a lot of customizability, but there's also a lack of customizability and control in the aspects that are most important, i guess.
It's hard to get anywhere as a small account if you dont have outside sources, and its hard to manage a large account without being overwhelmed, unless you have experience in handling such (i.e a ex-social media manager). its fun with friends to post together and have a "social" media that way, but the moment you start scaling up it becomes a mess and starts showing the flaws of [activitypub] itself.
A lot of the work does have to go into places like management of the instance itself, filtering out anything "unwanted", but when you have over 5, 10, 15k... people its hard to get a small group of people to do that, especially with the tools at hand- a group of people can just host a new server and domain and keep doing targetted harrassment, for example (and vice versa, not being able to see certain people because there's too broad of a filter). it really is a double edged sword, and honestly, it allows both the best and the worst of people.
I wish you well on trying to maintain your presence on a platform like this, because it truely has its goodsides and its badsides. make sure to take mental breaks- some people are only here to make people feel bad, but they are a loud minority, one that is fed by a lack of love. You are not a company who needs to keep the presence of a neutral entity, you are a person, and all [good] people deserve to be respected.

i've always been mixed on the experience ever since ive first tried activitypub based socials in 2019.
its nice to have a lot of customizability, but there's also a lack of customizability and control in the aspects that are most important, i guess.
It's hard to get anywhere as a small account if you dont have outside sources, and its hard to manage a large account without being overwhelmed, unless you have experience in handling such (i.e a ex-social media manager). its fun with friends to post...

2 Dec 2023 at 19:48 | Open on m.smokecommunity.com
Cybarbie

@TechConnectify @outadoc sorry I meant sympathically, like desperate, at your wits end, exasperated, etc. no offense intended, and I even tried to untag so you wouldn't get bothered by it but that doesn't work either so just made it even worse lol my bad.

2 Dec 2023 at 16:58 | Open on mastodon.social
Technology Connections

@nf3xn @outadoc cool, thanks for explaining. I thought that might be what you meant but, y'know, lots of folks I run across say this sort of stuff in earnest.

2 Dec 2023 at 17:02 | Open on mas.to
Guus der Kinderen

@TechConnectify @nf3xn @outadoc this feature request is being tracked in Mastodons bugtracker. It can be found here: github.com/mastodon/mastodon/i Various comments mention that some clients already support grouped notifications. I'm unfamiliar with them, but it might be worth giving it a try?

2 Dec 2023 at 18:33 | Open on toot.igniterealtime.org
Guus der Kinderen

@TechConnectify @nf3xn @outadoc Interestingly, @renchap (Mastodon core team member & CTO) included notifications grouping in a provisional roadmap for Mastodon 4.3 last month! oisaur.com/@renchap/1113486866 Fingers crossed that it will get implemented soon.

2 Dec 2023 at 18:52 | Open on toot.igniterealtime.org
Martin Holland

@TechConnectify @nf3xn @outadoc

Did you have a look at phanpy.social/? For posts with many replies I find it very helpful: It stacks notifications and orders replies. Maybe this helps a bit.

3 Dec 2023 at 16:50 | Open on social.heise.de
vovo

@outadoc @TechConnectify Yes! the whole point of federation is that it gives you choice, it'd be great to have the choice to have content served based on algorithms, albeit open algorithms you can trust and opt out of

2 Dec 2023 at 16:52 | Open on mstdn.isometry.group
Tobias Hellgren

@outadoc I would love this too, in client form only and as options that can be ticked on/off. Certainly doable, and a few clients already do this (features outside Masto but in their client)

2 Dec 2023 at 20:55 | Open on mastodon.chuggybumba.com
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