Gregory's Server@IzzyOnDroid Yea, the digital markets act is fantastic! Sadly the social media interoperability didn't make it in, that was in the original proposal too but I am glad messaging apps seem to actually be included because that wasn't certain for a long time ether! :)
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42 comments
 I suspect they'll just make an EU version of their OS that only works on EU carriers. Still, an impressive achievement to pass, and hopefully more countries will pass similar regulations. @gamey @IzzyOnDroid  @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid They certainly will but I live in the EU and it will set a great example for other countries so some might follow sooner or later, it worked like that for the GDPR at least! @gamey @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid I'm wondering how many more of those rules they are willing to accept before they decide to leave the European market. @th_willenbrink @gamey @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid @th_willenbrink @gamey @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid @bill88t @th_willenbrink @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid I don't think it will happen (everyone need the EU market) but I definitely agree! If Google services and most manufacturer software leave the EU many will fight for that spot and they can't be worse and will comply with the DMA. @gamey @bill88t @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid It's funny that people still think the EU is too big to pass up. @th_willenbrink @bill88t @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid Don't take this the wrong way but I think that's a horrible comparison! Threads didn't launch in the EU yet because they automatically transfered user data to another service without permission (not at all over regulation in my opinion), as a Twitter clone they need the EU more than most others tho so it's certainly not going to stay that way!  @gamey @th_willenbrink @bill88t @JessTheUnstill "because they automatically transfered user data to another service without permission" โ and what is different with that? I won't ever give them permission to transfer my data. But as soon as someone from their service accesses a room I am in, what would happen? I wouldn't be asked first, would I? And for them to participate, <s>the spice</s> data must flow. @gamey @bill88t @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid In Europe, we have nothing to counter the big Internet corporations. @th_willenbrink @bill88t @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid (1/2) You aren't wrong in concept but I think you definitely are in practice. The major way those companies keep their position is that their product are the users so more users equals more viable and there are small alternatives to many if not all of their services, they just aren't viable. Furthermore something like Android with very little competition isn't controlled by Google so it will continue to be available. @th_willenbrink @bill88t @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid (2/2) Other sectors like hardware have very heavy competition from the US and Asia and won't dry up, especially since the US made China a lot less attractive to do business in. I also don't think we should call it over regulation unless it actually damages consumers, all market regulations limit business to some extend and the thread you draw there (at least to me) isn't realistic atm! @th_willenbrink @bill88t @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid To me your point here is a neo liberal excuse to underregulate certain buisnesses and one of the driving factors behind even bigger big tech. @IzzyOnDroid @th_willenbrink @bill88t @JessTheUnstill I can't argue against that but I still don't think the DMA is dangerous over regulation in any way and I also think Huawai could be really dangerous to Google if they mess with AOSP and leave the EU market at the same time. @IzzyOnDroid @th_willenbrink @bill88t @JessTheUnstill Nothing will make the current version of AOSP closed source and if China and the EU are effected that's easily big enough of a market to continue that work even if Google abandoned all of us! (Which is highly unlikely in my opinion) @IzzyOnDroid @gamey @th_willenbrink @JessTheUnstill Literally sent from a degoogled custom rom'ed pixel 2xl. I look forward to a future I don't need to do this. @bill88t @IzzyOnDroid @th_willenbrink @JessTheUnstill I fundamentally agree with you but I also think your solutions are too easy, Google dose have the ultimate control over AOSP and even they struggle to maintain it. @bill88t @IzzyOnDroid @th_willenbrink @JessTheUnstill There is a big difference between all current projects and a seperately maintained branch of Android and they have no obligations to continue AOSP but as I pointed out in another comments that would also threaten China and both markets together are more than enough to justify a seperate mobile OS based on current AOSP so I don't think Google could afford to do anything like it. @th_willenbrink @gamey @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid @th_willenbrink @gamey @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid thereโs evidence that Apple is already working on geo-locking the new iOS features that the EU law requires. So as an example youโll only be able to side-load apps if youโre GPS confirms youโre physically in EU. So I donโt imagine they care about the EU regulations as they can use software to ignore them outside of Europe. @AlexanderMars @th_willenbrink @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid As I pointed out before I believe that that will certainly be the case for most implementations but the EU is still one of their biggest markets so "won't care" isn't the wording I would choose! It kind of happened with the GDPR (significantly weaker enforcment but the closest comparison I have) too but England and China still adopted almost 1:1 copies of it and I hope others will follow, it's just worth a lot less without EU courts.  @th_willenbrink @gamey @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid It would be a great opportunity for existing competitors shadowed by these giants. @squalouJenkins @th_willenbrink @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid Exactly, most of the effected companies are gatekeepers because of buisness models with monopolistic tendencies and a lack of regulation. If E.g. a unethical social media compay like Fuckbook would leave the EU and essentially force people to switch they probably won't choose that awful of a company as replacment and it's not unlikely that the new one will even follow existing EU laws, that's currently questionable in most cases too!  @gamey @JessTheUnstill @IzzyOnDroid People forget that the EU is a Union of European Citizens. :D @BillySmith that's the theory, yes. So let's throw out the lobbies, shall we? So it's finally "we, the people" defining how we want to live and be governed? ๐คช @IzzyOnDroid @BillySmith Well, the lobbies are definitely part of the problem but the member states have those too, what makes the EU unique are questionable cases of double representative democracy if you ask me! ;) Most of the lobbies, are the remnants of where the EU was started, as a trade cartel, that evolved into what we have today. :D It's just another continuation of the Enlightenment extending towards all of the peripheries of empire. :D It's a good start, but it's just another step on the way to creating The Culture. :D @BillySmith @IzzyOnDroid I would say the immense power of lobbies are a part of all member states and more of a sing of our current age of too big to fail mega cooperations. It's facinating and impressive how much more the EU is nowdays but you are right, there are many areas where you notice the rather extreme focus on trade over everything, still without them we would all have catasrophic laws that the EU court prevented! Yes. :D That side of the EU Courts, and the rights that exist for EU Citizens is great. :D Now we need to roll them out everywhere. :D @BillySmith @IzzyOnDroid True, one majore destructive facotor is the EU itself tho, many of the trade deals have extras that should definitely be illegal like pushing all of the liability to the tax payer and guaranteeing cooperations damage replacments if E.g. glyphosate infected wheat from Canada can't be imported anymore, that's the outragous side of it all! As for others that's a tough question, our trade deals definitely won't save them and their couts don't seem tp do so ether. :/ @BillySmith @IzzyOnDroid Pro tip: Don't look closer at the Pfizer deal, that's the biggest scam I have seen in a long time! ;) Those elements started to be brought in when the Trans-Pacific Partnership treaty was being negotiated, and have since become part of the standard ask-for in trade treaties. @gamey TBH, I personally do not much care about that one (unless it means to get the data OUT of their greedy hands to get them IN to free, libre, transparent services). And I haven't yet heard of a libre SN where you could import your DATA (profile, metadata yes, but all your messages?) The other part I rather do NOT want. My messages going TO some MAGMA service, for inter-operability? No, thanks ๐ @IzzyOnDroid In case of the messages the final goal seems to be something similar to Matrix (some people from Matrix, XMPP and Neochat (KDE Matrix client)) where invited to a meeting next to some people big tech/silicon valley so I assume the social media interoperability would have been comparable to Activitypub and don't really see what exactly you worry about tbh. I can't recall who wrote about it but there is a great post about that meeting on open collective! @gamey Keyword: #FediPact โ all the social graph of interactions from our rather privacy-oriented networks would become fully accessible to MAGMA. I kept out of their realms for a reason. I don't want to be dragged into that "indirectly" now. Bad enough that everyone using WA and having my number in their address book already ships that there, without my consent (and often even despite my explicit dis-consent). No need to worsen that. @IzzyOnDroid One thing the matrix people made very clear is that a phone numer wouldn't be a sufficient identifier but I get what you worry about now. If your contact writes you through Whatsapp in the future that will expose metadata about your Matrix account, I think it's a worthwhile tradeoff for the possibility of that interaction in the first place tho and the exact implications will depend heavily on the implementation!(Should hopefully need your consent for any further data than the nick) @gamey It won't stop at simply "dropping a DM" on the other end. Inter-operability would also mean participating in group chats/Matrix rooms. So if a single person from WA wants to participate in a Matrix room โฆ do I need to go into detail? If I'd host such a server, I'd block that (I could, as those rules to not apply to me and my "little server). @IzzyOnDroid I am still not entirely sure what "basic chat functionality" is supposed to mean but you are right. I have even seen arguments about possibly having to accept every server in the group chat indivitually but I highly doubt it will include public rooms. I know many people that I communicate with using SMS because all they have is Whatsapp and their reason against alternatives is a lack of acceas to all their contacts, I wouldn't communicate with Whatsapp directly but they would! @IzzyOnDroid To me it's more of a killer argument to install every none tech savy person Signal than beneficial to my personal usage and that would be highly beneficial to my personal usage. You are absolutely right tho, with the wrong implementation this could end in a catastophy for privacy! I feel like the GDPR already prevents a lot of the worse case scenarios, including yours. |
@IzzyOnDroid The best part is how heavily they will enforce it tho, I think the punishment is up to 20% of a companies yearly global revenue or something rediculess like that so no one will miss to implement that one unless they plan to leave the EU market entirely!