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Fedi.Tips 🎄

@osc @ThePlant @Mastodon

Microsoft changed? What? 😆

The same Microsoft that nowadays insists on spying on your computer?

techradar.com/news/is-windows-

These are corporations, not charities. They do not have any genuine interest in anything except making money for their shareholders.

5 Jul 2023 at 23:59 | Wall-to-wall | Open on mstdn.social
46 comments
O. Simard-Casanova in English

@feditips @ThePlant @Mastodon Microsoft used to be extremely hostile to anything open source, something Nadella completely changed

The fact they do shitty things on other dimensions doesn't change the fact that they changed their stance on open source

6 Jul 2023 at 0:01 | Open on econtwitter.net
Fedi.Tips 🎄

@osc @ThePlant @Mastodon

"Forget about the mass surveillance programme guys, they donated to open source!"

6 Jul 2023 at 0:02 | Open on mstdn.social
O. Simard-Casanova in English

@feditips @ThePlant @Mastodon What about answering to the things I actually said, instead of answering to strawmen?

6 Jul 2023 at 0:10 | Open on econtwitter.net
Fedi.Tips 🎄

@osc @ThePlant

Any company that carries out mass surveillance is not to be trusted.

You can't compartmentalise that kind of behaviour away.

6 Jul 2023 at 0:11 | Open on mstdn.social
O. Simard-Casanova in English

@feditips @ThePlant This is a hell of an extremist position

6 Jul 2023 at 0:13 | Open on econtwitter.net
Fedi.Tips 🎄 replied to O. Simard-Casanova in English

@osc @ThePlant

Objecting to mass surveillance is extremist? 😱

6 Jul 2023 at 0:15 | Open on mstdn.social
Liam replied to Fedi.Tips

@feditips @osc so you never use a single thing Microsoft have contributed time or money towards?

6 Jul 2023 at 0:16 | Open on mastodon.social
Fahri Reza replied to Liam

That's the very definition of too big to fail, sure they spy on you but have you not benefit from them even a bit?

@ThePlant @feditips @osc

6 Jul 2023 at 2:09 | Open on mastodon.social
Shanie replied to Liam

@ThePlant @feditips @osc What kind of hostile question is that?

Here, I can do that too: Because you use GitHub, you deserve everything Microsoft throws at you.

See? That doesn’t help.

Here’s the facts: Non-profits trusting for-profits has historically not worked out well for non-profits because they have fundamentally different goals. To accept money from them is trusting them in some capacity, and that money absolutely influences decisions.

6 Jul 2023 at 18:32 | Open on mastodon.tails.ch
O. Simard-Casanova in English replied to Fedi.Tips

@feditips @ThePlant Once again, can you answer to the things I actually said, instead of answering to strawmen?

6 Jul 2023 at 0:17 | Open on econtwitter.net
unexpectedteapot replied to O. Simard-Casanova in English

@osc @feditips @ThePlant absolutely not an extremist position to hold prejudice against companies that spy on, leak information of and break users' trust. Additionally, these open source projects are beneficial to these profit-driven companies. From open-washing, to attempts at patenting (remember when Facebook tried to patent React?), to other decisions that come from a conflict of interest (Chrome being used as a vehicle for Google to control the web like nerfing adblockers, FLoC, and more..)

6 Jul 2023 at 1:12 | Open on social.linux.pizza
Γιάννης Εκελδεκερές replied to O. Simard-Casanova in English

@osc In 2017 Meta (Facebook then) did not lift a finger to prevent the ethnic cleansing of Rohingya Muslims in Myanmar that was being incited on their web site. This is pretty well documented by the UN and Amnesty International. Not wanting any relation with the product of that organization is not extremist. The extremist position is to say everything is fine when we have so much evidence to the contrary. @feditips @ThePlant

6 Jul 2023 at 5:14 | Open on mathstodon.xyz
Sally Strange replied to O. Simard-Casanova in English

@osc @feditips @ThePlant this is a hell of a cop-out from a purely debate perspective

6 Jul 2023 at 13:18 | Open on strangeobject.space
martza :artix2: :alpine_linux: 💚​ :tor: :lainBear: :redflag: :nonbinary_potion: replied to O. Simard-Casanova in English
@osc @feditips @ThePlant
Free software extremism doesn't go far enough.
6 Jul 2023 at 17:13 | Open on fedi.absturztau.be
thomholwerda

@feditips @osc @ThePlant I'm curious - what platforms do you use? Unless it's like Linux or BSD or whatever, you're using a mass surveillance platform. Apple, too, collects vast amounts of data about its users, and lets the CCP control all of Apple users' data in China.

6 Jul 2023 at 0:20 | Open on social.tchncs.de
Fedi.Tips 🎄 replied to thomholwerda
thomholwerda replied to Fedi.Tips

@feditips @osc @ThePlant Good! The fewer Windows/macOS users, the better. 😅

6 Jul 2023 at 0:52 | Open on social.tchncs.de
DELETED replied to Fedi.Tips

@feditips @thomholwerda @osc @ThePlant

Microsoft first began contributing to the Linux kernel in 2009

6 Jul 2023 at 1:28 | Open on mastodon.social
Erin Nivelet replied to Fedi.Tips

@feditips
@thomholwerda @osc @ThePlant So you do use things Microsoft work on: Microsoft is one of the biggest contributor of Linux kernel:

theregister.com/2012/04/03/mic

6 Jul 2023 at 17:39 | Open on mstdn.sidh.bzh
Shanie replied to Erin

@erin @feditips @thomholwerda @osc @ThePlant I remember when Microsoft lost the court battle for Internet Explorer and being a monopoly. It’s not hard to imagine that they do this because it’s good footing for them to not look like a monopoly. “See? We help the open source movement stay just competitive enough!”

At least that comes with no strings attached thanks to the license. I think that’s the critical part.

6 Jul 2023 at 18:36 | Open on mastodon.tails.ch
Fluffery replied to thomholwerda
Seth Pilgrim replied to thomholwerda

@thomholwerda “well you’re already being watched, why do you care if even more people watch you, and farm even more data about you” :upsidedown:

@feditips @osc @ThePlant

6 Jul 2023 at 7:59 | Open on bdx.town
O. Simard-Casanova in English

@feditips @ThePlant @Mastodon It's not to a literal economist that you will teach that companies aren't charities

But under the correct set of incentives, the interest of companies can somewhat align with the interest of third parties that aren't their shareholders

It's a very surprising move for Meta to support the Fediverse in the first place, which indicates that something evolved in their business calculus

6 Jul 2023 at 0:03 | Open on econtwitter.net
nader

@osc @feditips @ThePlant @Mastodon I know it seems totally surprising. But do you know what Google did to xmpp (open source decentralized IM protocol) after "surprisingly" adapting it into Gmail and GTalk?
These articles have many examples over the years, explaining how big tech companies kill alternatives. I hope you find time to read them.

- How to Kill a decentralized Network
ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-ki

-Stop Talking to Each Other and Start Buying Things
catvalente.substack.com/p/stop

@osc @feditips @ThePlant @Mastodon I know it seems totally surprising. But do you know what Google did to xmpp (open source decentralized IM protocol) after "surprisingly" adapting it into Gmail and GTalk?
These articles have many examples over the years, explaining how big tech companies kill alternatives. I hope you find time to read them.

6 Jul 2023 at 0:51 | Open on mastodon.social
Sean

@nader @osc @feditips @ThePlant @Mastodon

This is the real truth that ActivityPub needs to be on watch against. Meta isnt going to "play" nice with anyone other than shareholders.

6 Jul 2023 at 15:06 | Open on mastodon.social
Pat

@osc @feditips @ThePlant @Mastodon or...they see an opportunity to enrich themselves. I will believe the evolution when they prove it. until then, it's shareholder driven in my mind

6 Jul 2023 at 2:43 | Open on mastodon.world
Bales

@osc @feditips @ThePlant @Mastodon they want to be the Gmail to the fediverse.

6 Jul 2023 at 9:08 | Open on c.im
DELETED

@osc @feditips @ThePlant @Mastodon

I think they want to feed the entire fediverse into their data collection scheme personally.

6 Jul 2023 at 13:09 | Open on mastodon.social
Buster | Felipe

@osc
Yeah, now they are opensource friendly because free training data for shitty AI
@feditips

6 Jul 2023 at 0:18 | Open on lile.cl
O. Simard-Casanova in English

@pitbuster @feditips This is a patently false statement

Their pivot toward open source date back to 2013-ish, way before they started to invest in AI

6 Jul 2023 at 0:20 | Open on econtwitter.net
Buster | Felipe

@osc yeah, I was trolling on that one, I admit. But, they open source tools here and there, and how they actually contribute to the rest of the ecosystem? There are ton of "open source friendly" corporations that are still shit.

@feditips

6 Jul 2023 at 0:24 | Open on lile.cl
O. Simard-Casanova in English

@pitbuster @feditips Have you considered reading what you're answering to?

6 Jul 2023 at 0:25 | Open on econtwitter.net
Buster | Felipe replied to O. Simard-Casanova in English

@osc Dude, you are the one that brought MS to the thread. Meta also had a lot of opensource contributions and it doesn't change the fact that they profit on surveillance, which is the point @feditips was making all along.

6 Jul 2023 at 0:28 | Open on lile.cl
O. Simard-Casanova in English replied to Buster | Felipe

@pitbuster @feditips I literally never disputed that Meta nor Microsoft profit on surveillance lol

Reading is a skill you usually learn in primary school, what about exercising it?

6 Jul 2023 at 0:29 | Open on econtwitter.net
Buster | Felipe replied to O. Simard-Casanova in English

@osc lol an economist bragging about reading comprehension @feditips

6 Jul 2023 at 0:30 | Open on lile.cl
Jon replied to Buster | Felipe

@pitbuster Yeah really. But I've also seen a lot of techies say "Facebook has contributed React and does a lot for open source software, so let's not talk about the genocide" so it's not just economists who take this kind of position.

It's kind of like saying "Monsanto has a great Pride float, so it's just fine to take funding from them!"

@osc @feditips

6 Jul 2023 at 0:37 | Open on indieweb.social
jan Wilejan

@osc @feditips "The Microsoft of the past used to Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish open source projects. The Microsoft of today Embraces, Extends open source projects and I can't wait to see what comes next!" 🙃 🤣

6 Jul 2023 at 0:31 | Open on fosstodon.org
O. Simard-Casanova in English
jan Wilejan

@osc @feditips I was paraphasing you, silly. You said "Microsoft used to play dirty against open source projects" (that's the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish). You also said "[Microsoft] is now financing a ton of terrific open source projects" (that's Embrace, Extend). They haven't changed; they just haven't gotten to step 3 yet.

6 Jul 2023 at 0:41 | Open on fosstodon.org
tinkel

@osc @janWilejan @feditips

"Embrace, extend, and extinguish" (EEE), also known as "embrace, extend, and exterminate", is a phrase that the US DOJ used to describe its strategy for entering product categories involving widely used standards, extending those standards with proprietary capabilities, and then using those differences in order to strongly disadvantage its competitors.

MS used that against web with intentionally broken and incompatible browser.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,

@osc @janWilejan @feditips

"Embrace, extend, and extinguish" (EEE), also known as "embrace, extend, and exterminate", is a phrase that the US DOJ used to describe its strategy for entering product categories involving widely used standards, extending those standards with proprietary capabilities, and then using those differences in order to strongly disadvantage its competitors.

6 Jul 2023 at 9:08 | Open on mastodon.social
tinkel

@osc @janWilejan @feditips

1. Embrace: Development of software substantially compatible with a competing product, or implementing a public standard.

2. Extend: Addition and promotion of features not supported by the competing product or part of the standard, creating interoperability problems for customers who try to use the "simple" standard.

3. Extinguish: When extensions become a de facto standard, they marginalize competitors that do not or cannot support the new extensions

6 Jul 2023 at 9:12 | Open on mastodon.social
jan Wilejan

@tinkel I know what EEE means. why are you telling me this?

6 Jul 2023 at 12:01 | Open on fosstodon.org
Drikanis

@osc @feditips @ThePlant @Mastodon I'd agree if you asked me 2-3 years ago, but they're now using code (OSS and otherwise) that is stored in GitHub to train and sell their for-profit AI coding assistant, and that's just the most recent example.

They are in the business of making money. When it comes to open source, they're still in the embrace and extend stages. Take what you can, enjoy what they are contributing, but do not trust them.

6 Jul 2023 at 0:53 | Open on mstdn.ca
RussianDeepStateSock

@osc @feditips @ThePlant @Mastodon that's because Microsoft, like Google and many others, use open source in closed source projects. Edge, for example. Chrome. Etc. These were built on open source, adjusted enough to become closed and/or paid the legal fees required to own open source.

It doesn't cost them much to maintain influence over open source projects, and the have all the money in the world. No idea what you are saying here, but I'm not here for it.

6 Jul 2023 at 1:03 | Open on mastodon.social
Loïc Denuzière

@osc
They contribute in ways that benefit them.

Microsoft only really embraced open source when its core business shifted from selling software (for which open source was a direct rival) to selling online platforms and cloud (for which open source is a useful tool).

On the other hand, the fediverse is not just an open source project, but a social network, and Facebook is in the business of showing ads and collecting personal information.

@feditips @ThePlant @Mastodon

@osc
They contribute in ways that benefit them.

Microsoft only really embraced open source when its core business shifted from selling software (for which open source was a direct rival) to selling online platforms and cloud (for which open source is a useful tool).

On the other hand, the fediverse is not just an open source project, but a social network, and Facebook is in the business of showing ads and collecting personal information.

6 Jul 2023 at 1:13 | Open on mastodon.tarmil.fr
David Plisken 🏳️‍⚧️ BLM!

@feditips @osc @ThePlant @Mastodon Microsoft is currently under the antitrust microscope.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They may have changed the perception slightly by doing some good stuff but it doesn't obviate their coercive power dynamics.

6 Jul 2023 at 0:05 | Open on hessen.social
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