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Chris Trottier

Jack Dorsey explaining exactly why no single company should own a social media platform.

167 comments
Chris Trottier

But Jack Dorsey also still prefers that Elon Musk own Twitter instead of a bank.

Which is a wild thing to say knowing what we know now.

Chris Trottier

Call me crazy, but if I was in Jack Dorsey’s position, I would have converted Twitter into a consumer-owned and worker-owned co-op.

Sell it to everyone who uses Twitter and works on it.

That model works for many successful companies.

Oblomov

@atomicpoet hypercapitalists see worker ownership/coops as borderline communist. They can't even entertain the idea, let alone contemplate the possibility of it working

Chris Trottier

I just asked Jack Dorsey why he doesn’t donate towards helping ActivityPub.

Will he reply? Because I really want to know 🙂

Chris Trottier

Here’s how Jack Dorsey want to monetize Bluesky:

1. Subscriptions
2. Ads
3. Commerce/Transactions

Sal Rahman

@atomicpoet BlueSky is a profit-driven business like Twitter and Meta?

sub_o

@atomicpoet what about selling user data to AI companies. Wasn’t there an online therapy or suicide hotline company that did that?

Chris Trottier

Jack Dorsey says he doesn’t believe a company should own a protocol platform and distribution.

Glad to hear he regrets Twitter.

Sooo… when will Bluesky connect to multiple nodes?

Chris Trottier

At least Jack Dorsey doesn’t want to run Bluesky through a DAO.

Chris Trottier

Jack Dorsey says if AT protocol has a CEO, it fails.

I agree.

I guess Bluesky should decentralize soon.

Chris Trottier

Jack Dorsey doesn’t want AT protocol to be capable of DMs.

That means they’re probably not coming to Bluesky either.

Chris Trottier

Here’s what I don’t understand: why does Jack Dorsey pretend that ActivityPub doesn’t exist?

kotaro replied to Chris

@atomicpoet Of course he is trying to fool the less informed.

Oblomov replied to Chris
Peter Jakobs ⛵ replied to Chris

@atomicpoet I would tend to think because he believes he will get enough screentime to make with his own protocol, which will give home more control and therefore more opportunity to monetarize

Peter Jakobs ⛵ replied to Peter Jakobs ⛵

@atomicpoet ha! Had I read the posts before those, I would have been more puzzled an would not have come to this answer

Raoul replied to Chris

@atomicpoet My money is on hubris and Dorsey's trademark vapidness.

Cyber Yuki replied to Chris

@atomicpoet@mastodon.social Easy: Because it's become an existential threat to his business, just like Linux against Microsoft.

Jack doesn't want to participate in a distributed, open world. He wants an empire he can control.

DELETED replied to Cyber

@yuki2501 @atomicpoet YUP. All the while pretending like he’s some kind of man of the people. Where have I heard this song before?

Jae Bloom replied to Chris

@atomicpoet Because be wants to believe he’s “the only one”. His ego can’t allow him to not be in control.

Packy Anderson replied to Chris

@atomicpoet Because he doesn't control it.

People who build things with open protocols don't become worshipped as tech gods. They may become names recognized in communities, but they don't get rich.

Juhani Lehtimäki replied to Chris

@atomicpoet a very normal symptom of a techie. Admitting that it did would undermine his own efforts. And if course, in his own head, he has a very clear picture of how his own stuff works but figuring out alternatives takes effort.
That's the same reason we have 1M libraries for everything. It's easier to start your own than admitting that someone has already done fine oon solving the issue.

Enrique Barcelli replied to Chris

@atomicpoet of course he knows it exists.

This is just a theory, but I believe anyone who has been nurtured in the fast paced big tech will have serious problems in dealing with open standards and open source.

When they do it, they do it only out of no choice, because they cannot stand the long, convoluted and consensual process of the open management, their 'natural ways' will point them into the faster go-to-market pace of the direct command and control model.

The best you can expect from them is to develop something and then release it to the open source (if there is any benefit to them in doing so), but open management? No way.

We don't need to blame them, point fingers or feel puzzled or angry about them... it is what they are. It is just them being them. 🤷‍♂️

@atomicpoet of course he knows it exists.

This is just a theory, but I believe anyone who has been nurtured in the fast paced big tech will have serious problems in dealing with open standards and open source.

When they do it, they do it only out of no choice, because they cannot stand the long, convoluted and consensual process of the open management, their 'natural ways' will point them into the faster go-to-market pace of the direct command and control model.

D:\side\ replied to Chris

@atomicpoet a borderline conspiracy theory I'm wondering about is whether Nostr was created solely to prevent the development efforts in decentralized social media from gathering around ActivityPub. In a "divide and conquer" kind of way.

meduz' replied to meduz'

@atomicpoet And there’s also this one where he says centralization is bad, but stilll the first decentralization move from Twitter was all about crypto: twitter.com/jack/status/151031

Phil L. replied to Chris

@atomicpoet

Because it's too powerful for his sycophantic acolytes to be made aware of

They need to believe that there is only one true protocol

phi1997 replied to Chris

@atomicpoet
The answer is obvious: he wants people on his site rather than a Mastodon instance

Steve Torrente

@atomicpoet Wow, he really has an Invisible Hand fatalism thing going.

LAUREN

@atomicpoet
How truly innovative and different than Twitter.

Peter du Toit

@noondlyt @atomicpoet well it is in a way because the *clients* get to decide not some central body

Peter du Toit

@noondlyt @atomicpoet I guess that could lots of reasons one being a way to pay for costs associated with running an instance?

LAUREN

@peterdutoit @atomicpoet
I like this, here. I give to server admins as I can. Not just mine but others who are on here and an active part of the community. I can see Bluesky instances being leased or sold like franchises.

Enrique Barcelli

@atomicpoet
I have no issue with subscriptions and commerce/transactions.

Ads, or better saying 'commercial ads', require monopolistic power on the platform. This has been the norm since the first days of newspapers, magazines, radio, tv... and social media has been no different.

The fact is that given the choice, audiences (people) don't want ads. We gladly pay for removing them.

We all do 'Ads' all the time, when we pitch our ideas or speak about our products and services, and that is all fine as long as people freely chooses to listen to us.

Any platform expecting to monetize 'Ads', will need to force them through their audiences, and that is a fundamental abuse of the relationship, which requires some sort of power (ie. lock-in) on the platform side in order to be implemented.

This need or requirement will quickly come at odds with freedom and transportability.

If I am given the question: 'Would you pay $4 a month for half the ads?', I'd reply: 'I'd gladly pay $8 for ZERO ads'... problem is that there are many powerful actors who would happily pay a lot more for keeping them.

I think we need to think a bit more out-of-the-box here... in a world with infinite searching and indexing options, we don't need ads any more. Ads are not a solution, they are part of the problem.

We really want the content, the products, the music, the articles, the poetry, the news, the opinions, the movies, the art... and we need to pay for them to their creators... but there are many ways to do that without ads. Let's focus on those ways.

#NoAds

@atomicpoet
I have no issue with subscriptions and commerce/transactions.

Ads, or better saying 'commercial ads', require monopolistic power on the platform. This has been the norm since the first days of newspapers, magazines, radio, tv... and social media has been no different.

The fact is that given the choice, audiences (people) don't want ads. We gladly pay for removing them.

HistoPol (#HP)

@kikobar
💯 %
#AdsAreTheProblem

"I think we need to think a bit more out-of-the-box here... in a world with infinite searching and indexing options, we don't need ads any more. Ads are not a solution, they are part of the problem.

We really want the content, the products, the music, the articles, the poetry, the news, the opinions, the movies[...] and we need to pay for them to their creators... but there are many ways to do that without ads. Let's focus on those ways."
@atomicpoet

Gen X-Wing

@atomicpoet Ehm. Hard no.

Because he missed 4 (and any Robocop fan will get a kick out of this).

4. Harvest everything and sell everyone’s private data…

Olav

@atomicpoet at a minimum BS has to pay for itself, and I'm sure mister altruistic Jack wants the $15M+ he's sunk into this back.

And the parallel from his comment here is BS is being designed so everyone can monetize (for a modest fee of course)

Dr. Jibreel Sohail

@atomicpoet "people will choose the best way they can be exploited"

Toni Aittoniemi

@atomicpoet Which translates to exacty the same problems of commercialising attention.

The business model is the message.

Olav

@atomicpoet also Jack Dorsey realizing SM can't go live without a block option.
If that's not obvious, maybe he shouldn't have a social media platform.

Enrique Barcelli

@atomicpoet the only value of a social network is the people in that network.

So yes, he sold us out.

But he is right, it was his company and companies are always for sale.

So unless we are happy about being traded as commodities, we shall stay away of the centrally commanded social network paradigm.

The Good Rev Dr Poop Daddy

@atomicpoet “I didn’t sell out son. I bought in. Keep that in mind.”

Chumchum Tumtum

@atomicpoet "It's your fault for believing I might have had any integrity to start with"

Ian Betteridge

@atomicpoet I'm continually surprised when people don't understand this.

harmonicarichard

@atomicpoet actually he did sell us out. He is an idiot. He breached our trust.

Darwin Woodka

@atomicpoet good to know he's just a high priced whore I guess

Yann 不停 Heurtaux

@atomicpoet More specifically the publicly listed ones (/include some stuff about the Dell move e.g.).

sudo βραχυκύκλωμα :kafeneio:

@atomicpoet First of all, he explains why one shouldn't make his company public and let the markets choose what this company does or doesn't do.

HistoPol (#HP)

@atomicpoet

Film maker and storyteller #MatthewCooke has two excellent episodes in his #podcast series on the impact of #SocialMedia on society.
This is no easy listening, but chilling and enlightening.

S1E4 talks exactly about this issue: Should Society Own its Social Media

americanoriginstories.buzzspro

The follow-up is in S1E6:
Mastering the Media Matrix

americanoriginstories.buzzspro

Everybody wondering about #SM's impact on society should've heard about Marshal #McCluhan.

American Origin Stories

@atomicpoet

Film maker and storyteller #MatthewCooke has two excellent episodes in his #podcast series on the impact of #SocialMedia on society.
This is no easy listening, but chilling and enlightening.

S1E4 talks exactly about this issue: Should Society Own its Social Media

americanoriginstories.buzzspro

Dr M

@atomicpoet sorry. No. You can have principles and say no even if its a butload of money.

tm

@atomicpoet 👌 you made your money so how about piss off and let someone else have a go.

tm

@atomicpoet also, that's literally what sell out means, so you, in fact, literally, did.

AlexanderVI

@atomicpoet Or maybe why we shouldn't treat things owned by private companies as public goods? Is he subtly suggesting public ownership is the only sensible alternative? Reverse-enclosures? It really makes you think....

Aral Balkan

@atomicpoet In the venture capital game, the sell out happens at the very start when you accept venture capital.

#vc #ventureCapital #SiliconValley #SurveillanceCapitalism #BigTech

Veronica Olsen 🏳️‍🌈🇳🇴🌻

@atomicpoet I also don't think he understand what a lot of us mean by "sell you out", because "selling to the highest bidder" is well within my definition at least.

Chaoddity

@atomicpoet he quite literally sold everyone out and is describing the conditions of sale.

Janneke

@atomicpoet
Is he listening himself to what he's saying, though?

FS9-BS "Bad Survivor"

@atomicpoet fascinating tbh, like, with that admission he's explicitly telling users that he'll sell this weird project to some rich fascist too.

Like, bruh maybe that's actually a structural problem?

FeralRobots

@atomicpoet he seems a little sensitive about it, tho.

DELETED

@atomicpoet the government should designate Twitter and any company with such political bias and control, a public utility. Twitter is a succinct example why they should be.

Raul Portales

@atomicpoet strictly speaking he did "sell you out", the message just says that you should have expected it.

David Blue ※

@atomicpoet @atomicpoet I don't understand how/why anyone could attribute any merit to this person's mental function after this thread. twitter.com/jack/status/101242

Lorin Sherman

@atomicpoet Yes, this has always been why I'm wary of public companies. I respect companies who stay private and find ways to fund their endeavors without the enticing crutch of a public offering. Besides being more stable having complete control of their own destiny, it also shows a shrewd resourcefulness with their own finances that seems a far better marker of good leadership than the extremely short term benefit of public cash grab.

Paul Edo

@atomicpoet well he's saying the bitter truth and we shouldn't be upset because it's true.

The Gentleman in Question

@atomicpoet
A rare instance of a dangerous monopoly breaking itself up.

GJ Groothedde 🇪🇺

@atomicpoet This is true, and the precise reason why he sold us out.

Charles U. Farley

@atomicpoet IOW he didn't sell them out by selling to Musk. He sold them out by going public.

Which is why I call IPOs "dumping the company on the public".

🌱 Peter W Flint

@atomicpoet Feels like Jack has been operating with a chip in his shoulder since he got kicked out of Twitter c-suite

Ian Troesoyer

@atomicpoet Or explaining why public ownership of companies via shares is a form of aristocracy. Those with money can purchase control and use that power to further concentrate wealth.

Catherine Berry

@atomicpoet , that actually explains why no one should use a social media platform owned by a single company. There's no need for regulation if users act in their own best interests.

ryan onstott

@atomicpoet jack dorsey sold everybody on twitter out A LONG TIME before he sold out to elon

Guilherme (CWB.social)

@atomicpoet "I didn't sell you out now. I sold you out before."

Stoney Takes

@atomicpoet awesome now people can post screen shots from twatter and blue balls instead of just twatter 🙌🏼

Simon Zerafa

@atomicpoet

Ones without morals or ethics are probably.

And they don't give a flying foxbat for their users, customers and staff.

Author Sharon E. Cathcart ✅

@atomicpoet

Jack Dorsey is full of more shit that a Provençal goose.

7sleepersmusic

@atomicpoet Exactly. He’d sell #Bluesky to Tucker Carlson if the price was right. He probably will!

Diabetic Heihachi

@atomicpoet
@cpep

Translation: "I am a spineless turd that can't admit I like money more than advancing human culture."

I cant prove it since its long deleted but in 2010 Dorsey liked one of my anti-capitalist tweets, I called him out to put his money where his like button is and that like quickly vanished. I never got random unsolicited follows on that account again.

I wish I kept screens.

Infrapink (he/his/him)

@atomicpoet

Billionaires: We would like to buy your network for these big bags of money.

Jack Dorsey: OK.

Eugen Rochko: Get the behind me, Satan.

ye olde bebe

@atomicpoet oddly funny he recycled his old twitter avatar for his recycled twitter launch

AnthonyJK-Admin

@atomicpoet

All social media should be considered public utilities and run under Net Neutrality rules.

Ash Doyle

@atomicpoet @gedeonm To me, those first two sentences contradict each other. First sentence should read “Of course I sold you out.”

James Tinmouth

@atomicpoet this reads to me "I didn't sell you out" "of course I sold you out, what did you expect?"

Zaku

@atomicpoet pathetic. Such an illiterate view on corporate governance. people in the digital space really need to wake up, rebel against those tech bros, and stop enriching them with private data.

Psotle

@atomicpoet This is just how publically listed companies work. Ultimately if someone is willing to pay over the odds for stock *coygh cough Elon* then people will part with it for the return.

This isn't some personal failing of Jack's, literally what our economic system incentivises and is structured around.

Vertigo #$FF

This is a brilliant example of why, if you're to participate in a market, you avoid public ownership like the fucking plague. Stay private. Start a co-op. ANYTHING but a publicly owned corporation.

Sorry Jack, but you absolutely did sell everyone out. Specifically, the very moment you filed for an IPO.

mastodon.social/@atomicpoet/11

H/T @atomicpoet@mastodon.social

Carolyn

@atomicpoet LOL. I mean, what?!!! You mean he never was some sort of all-knowing guru?!

The man has an eating disorder, and if a woman, would've been called out on it long ago. People need to stop worshipping wealthy people as if they are wise and smart.

Mark Kraft

@atomicpoet "I'll take 'things billionaires say' for $100, Alex!"

FediThing

@atomicpoet

I am guessing he wasn't that honest before the sale went through! :blobcatgiggle:

Why does anyone trust corporations? Why do people attach themselves emotionally to money making machines?

Primo

@atomicpoet also: no company should be publicly traded, >.>
(Being owned by the public would be okay)

william.maggos

@atomicpoet

I don't get why he couldn't have made Twitter decentralized and FOSS while he ran it. This is why I don't trust him or #BlueSky.

sudonymouse

@atomicpoet I did not "do these outrageous things maliciously". All public companies do these outrageous things for money. Always.

Mike But Slightly Frosty ❄️⛄

@atomicpoet And also technically forgetting the etymology of the phrase "selling out" as in selling your idea or band to investors for a profit once it becomes popular.

Drowsy Outrage

@atomicpoet Please let’s stop waiting for the right sociopath to save us. Please let’s all try to remember that being clever about one thing & making a lot of money off it does not equate to having the wisdom to solve all humanity’s problems. Please let’s allow these would-be technocrats to just talk amongst themselves & have their willy-measuring contests in private — while the rest of us IGNORE THEM.

mazzeri

@atomicpoet “I didn’t sell you out, I sold to the highest bidder” is some hot take.

Kelly

@atomicpoet he's defining sell out and saying it's not a sell out. Completely agree with you.

Jeff

@atomicpoet he could have taken twitter private

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