Gregory's ServerThe eight most wonderful words you can say on the internet:
" I don't know enough to have an opinion."
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81 comments
  @charliejane Which is an interesting poser Love ya' but I was just fed those words today by someone who could be an ally but doesn't want to risk their neck or potentially burn any privilege. Then they said the issue of Republicans targeting trans teens was "too complicated". @Frances_Larina In a case like that, I would trust the marginalized people who are involved. When it comes to other kinds of marginalizations, I often don't know enough myself, but then I listen to the people who are affected directly. It's not that hard. I wouldn't tell a Black person I know more about anti-Black racism than they do. @Frances_Larina To bring this home, I'm not really interested in having a cis person lecture me about trans rights. I'd way rather they say, "I don't know as much as you do, so please share your perspective and I'll support you." I wish they would say that, as well. But that was my original point, that sometimes they use,  @Frances_Larina @charliejane Thatβs a really important exception. Itβs frequently used as a cop out by faux-libs/Allieβs and closeted bigots to handwave any responsibility. In those cases, itβs pretty easy to see that if they actually gave a fuck, theyβd have long ago read up on the matter sufficiently to form an opinion about it. I agree with Charlie Jane, itβs nice to hear, but it can easily be twisted to cover up a lack of actual care or interest in serious issues.π€·π½ Oh, I didn't think it was at all, "nice to hear" in that context! I think I probably just didn't word my comment very precisely. My apologies to both of you! @Frances_Larina @charliejane I donβt think you have anything to apologize for, though I canβt speak for Charlie Jane. (π€ if appropriate ) Itβs a perfectly valid take and particularly understandable in your own situation of just having seen it used so awfully, personally, and recently. Also, Iβm sorry you had to experience that. Some people just suck. @cautionwip @Frances_Larina I think "everybody should have to have an opinion on all topics" would be a horrible rule. I don't have opinions about sports because I don't follow sports. On the small number of issues where people's lives are at stake, I try to educate myself, but also to listen to people who have direct experience, or who belong to the marginalized communities affected. I don't think we're actually disagreeing here. @charliejane @Frances_Larina Ratified, on both points. As far as I read it, Frances (or is it Larena? Apologies if Iβm getting it wrong) was noting a very specific application of that statement and its abuse by those who claim to be progressive and potential allies, which is a valid elaboration on your OP and I didnβt see it as a denial, but rather an addition. @cautionwip @Frances_Larina Yeah, that makes sense. And honestly, any statement can be used in bad faith and weaponized by evil people to support inaction or wrong action. This explains so much about "AI" trained on the internet, where so many don't know enough to have an opinion, but won't let that stop them.  @charliejane going to open a github issue for adding this option to every poll automatically. Does double duty to allow for a "show results" button too I have to disagree, people too get very annoyed with me for giving that response. Maybe not most of the time, but it is rarely appreciated @imonomi I'd rather not be forced to listen to an uninformed opinion, especially when I might know more than the other person! @charliejane That just reminded me of this one. πAnd seriously, Ignorance is not a valid argument or excuse. @Bargdaffy So you really think everybody should spout off on every topic, regardless of expertise? @charliejane No, People who are Ignorant should not but they rarely know how Ignorant they are, so nobody ever says "I don't know enough to have an Opinion" I think that was kind of the gist of it. Sometimes I get a little convoluted....lol. https://youtu.be/4FGnb2lgPBA @Bargdaffy I feel like if I acknowledge my ignorance publicly, then I'm setting a good example for others. I learned this on Usenet back in the 90s. If you don't know something, it's good to say so but it's BETTER to get out there and know it. This is the fucking internet. Everything you could possibly need to know about some lousy-ass internet debate is at your fingertips. If you don't know something, GO KNOW IT. @TootUncommon I don't have time to research every topic in the universe. Some topics I honestly don't care enough to research. I have no opinion about many celebrities and that's fine. @TootUncommon Also, on many contested topics, someone could do their own research and end up more ignorant than before. The internet is full of mis/disinformation. @charliejane @TootUncommon Exhibit A for your point: #antivaxxers who "do their own research"! Since many people are responding to me from various instances: I'm obviously not saying you should be neutral/apathetic on transphobia, climate change, or other hot button topics. I'm not a climate scientist, but I listen to climate scientists and let them shape my views. But because I'm not a climate scientist, if there was a technical question about the mechanics of climate change, I would defer to the experts. And to use a different example, I don't follow sports. So I don't have any opinions about sports. I also don't have any opinions about 99 percent of celebrities. Nobody is harmed by me not exposing my ignorance on those topics. And when it comes to marginalized/stigmatized communities, I listen to the members of those communities and avail myself of whatever resources they offer. I try to boost/support them however I can. I don't lecture a member of a marginalized group about their own experience, especially if it's a marginalization I don't share. My general rule of thumb is that marginalized people know more than I do about the challenges they are facing, and I should support them without drowning them out. @charliejane I talked about this very thing in my recent essay on intersectionality, which is not only for cis allies but for us (it was partly spurred by all the racism Iβve found in the white trans woman community) https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTACnUKUY7oBzYTbGi87pOEV4Q5R48_eQ3FH0adQChovMP_J_4YeF9v1z0Q7s4gHVkMbMEwsQkRdysq/pub @tillybridges @charliejane And now I have the very useful βintersectionalityβ framework to proceed with, or more accurately: see things through. I did not have this yesterday, and now I do. Look what you did. When I say Iβm a cishet βally-in-trainingβ in my profile, welp, this is pretty much the content Iβm looking for along the way. Endless gratitude. @charliejane @goodthinking Iβm so glad it was helpful! Iβve written over a hundred of these essays, all archived and free, and one of the main sections is entirely about allyship! if you want to check them out you can find them here π http://tillystranstuesdays.com @charliejane Iβm always deeply surprised that people from nonmarginalized groups feel audacious enough to tell marginalized people how they should feel and what their lived life is like. But theyβre the same people who explain the expertβs job to them. I shouldnβt be surprised by now.  @loke @charliejane My corollary: The more I know about something, the more I realize I don't know anything! @charliejane Best word in any language: Benign. Best phrase: it will go away on its own. βI donβt know enough to have an opinionβ falls third in my estimation, but itβs definitely up there!   @charliejane And yet on the internet, that sentence will be followed by,"So here is my opinion anyway." Alas. @charliejane why limit these to the internet? These words are very useful at work or with kids that ask you tricky questions as well. Itβs perfectly alright to not know the answers to everything and it might even become the starting point to a new learning experience! @charliejane "β¦ and since I know I can't help but have an opinion, I'm going to educate myself before I share it. If you want to share resources, that's cool. But don't feel obligated, I'll do the work anyway." @charliejane I understand your point, but I may agree only if you take that not too literally  I get what you mean because I have said this. And it's a great way to defuse an argument with someone trying to pull you into a fight.  @charliejane Indeed. I think Marcus Aurelius put it best. "It is in our power to have no opinion about a thing, and not to be disturbed in our soul; for things themselves have no natural power to form our judgements." And more generally: βI was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know. β - Mark Twain @charliejane I do agree, and often stop myself before reacting to check if what i'm about to say is based on anything other than an emotional reaction. However, this statement does need to be followed up with 'so let me go learn some more and come back to you'. But then, i'm an emotional thinker, and have had to train myself to stop and think before reacting based on how it makes me feel for many situations, especially when it's not about me and my feels!  @charliejane This is seen as a weakness. Same as saying you were wrong and changing your opinion after new facts. @charliejane True, regardless of the topic at hand. More βbased on my current informationβ or βmy preliminary opinionβ or the good old βIMHOβ or βI might be wrongβ¦β would indeed be most wonderful to seeβ¦ @charliejane Truly beautiful. Sometimes not having enough informations though, causes my brain to loop in circles, and then... headache #_# Fun times  @charliejane How about "I don't know enough to have an opinion so take my thoughts with a grain of salt." @Yoshi Sure, as long as you're willing to listen to others after expressing your half-baked thoughts! @charliejane  @charliejane I agree, I think it's important to back up your opinions, especially if it's something that could potentially affect the well-being of others. We should always stride to be educated, sure. But all too often do I see people spouting opinions or ideas that crumble once questioned. Admittedly, I'm guilty of this as well. I just try to be mindful and accept that there are some things I do not know. @charliejane I love saying that even when I do have an opinion but don't want to get into an argument :D @Juju I really hope you don't do this when speaking up could help vulnerable people tho. I really wasn't advocating for cowardice in the face of bigotry. @charliejane Obviously not... @Juju Fair enough. It's also always an option to walk away from shitty dudes, thank goodness.... @charliejane yes,, or better still people should just not comment and instead ask for more information ,one thing I love about social media is learning new things  @charliejane @charliejane And throughout all NO ONE started counting from even " 1". What about further March?ππ   @charliejane I think you often know enough to have an opinion, but when itβs based on sniff tests and gut feeling, itβs refreshing when people admit that. @charliejane let this be a reminder that i have to read a lot of philosophy books @charliejane the amount of pushback to "accepting that I have limits in my expertise and don't actually know everything" here is really annoying, I'm glad that resistance to basic epistemic humility really is not reflected in the circles I hang out in lol |
@charliejane True guru-level wisdom in that phrase.