Email or username:

Password:

Forgot your password?
Ben's posts Post Back to profile
Top-level
Jcrabapple
40 comments
Jcrabapple
Henry Barreto

@jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey

Kagi is becoming more and more appealing to me with this crazy AI thing around.

3 January at 15:14 | Open on mastodon.social
eighthourlunch

@henry_barreto @jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey Even if Kagi promises privacy, I have a hard time trusting that it's 100% guaranteed when using their service requires a subscription and login.

3 January at 16:49 | Open on mastodon.social
Jcrabapple

@eighthourlunch @henry_barreto @TheBreadmonkey From their privacy policy:

Searches are anonymous and private to you. Kagi does not log and associate searches with an account.
We do not log or store your IP address. Your IP address is used only temporarily when enriching location/maps searches, and is not shared with any other party.
We only store cookies needed for site functionality.
We do not use any web browser analytics or other frontend telemetry.
We do not display any ads, or have any first-party or third-party tracking in service of ads.
We collect only the data needed to provide and protect the service.
We proxy all images to prevent tracking from third parties.
We use HTTPS encryption everywhere. All passwords are hashed and salted.

Of course, if you don't trust privacy policies or any third parties you can self-host SearXNG or Whoogle.

@eighthourlunch @henry_barreto @TheBreadmonkey From their privacy policy:

Searches are anonymous and private to you. Kagi does not log and associate searches with an account.
We do not log or store your IP address. Your IP address is used only temporarily when enriching location/maps searches, and is not shared with any other party.
We only store cookies needed for site functionality.

3 January at 16:53 | Open on dmv.community
Jcrabapple
meejah

@jcrabapple @eighthourlunch @henry_barreto @TheBreadmonkey Ooo, that part (privacy pass) is interesting -- do they have more details on this somewhere?

(This _should_ allow users to prove to Kagi that they have a valid subscription without revealing who they are -- but of course the details are very important here ;)

3 January at 19:54 | Open on mastodon.social
Jcrabapple

@meejah @eighthourlunch @henry_barreto @TheBreadmonkey yes that is the goal, but it was just mentioned on their 2024 year end call. There should be more details coming soon.

3 January at 19:55 | Open on dmv.community
meejah

@jcrabapple @eighthourlunch @henry_barreto @TheBreadmonkey Cool. I've previously worked on a privacy-pass based payment system, so I'm very curious how they're using it here :)

3 January at 19:57 | Open on mastodon.social
Jcrabapple
meejah

@jcrabapple @eighthourlunch @henry_barreto @TheBreadmonkey Just watched that segment: super cool!

This sounds ideal, and great use of Privacy Pass. I would still like a few more details (like when they rotate server keys, how many tokens are issued per request, and how those token-issuing requests work).

In any case, the answers to those will only slightly affect what Kagi learns; they will _not_ be able to associate searches to particular users (just that a user is legitimate).

3 January at 21:42 | Open on mastodon.social
Chris Bussard
Mastokarl

@eighthourlunch @henry_barreto @jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey huh, isn‘t it actually the other way around? Only by requiring a subscription, and making money from me as their customer they can offer true anonymity in searches. Because they don‘t need to scan your content to serve you ads.

Very happy Kagi user.

3 January at 18:56 | Open on mastodon.social
eighthourlunch

@Mastokarl @henry_barreto @jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey Unless I'm looking at the source code and know that's what's in production, or have trusted a third party that can reasonably ensure the same, then no. Even then, they still collect personal data for payment and login.

I'm open to evidence, but I'm still wary about creating yet another login and monthly cost. Search used to work reasonably well without either.

3 January at 19:06 | Open on mastodon.social
meejah

@eighthourlunch @Mastokarl @henry_barreto @jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey I'm in this boat: I like the _idea_ of Kagi, and am certainly open to paying for service / lack-of-ads / lack-of-"AI" -- but I do not love "look-aside" claims of anonymity.

That is, a "trust us, we're not logging the data that we definitely have access to". I'd rather have a protocol which doesn't give them access to these data (and this is why mentions of "privacy pass" are exciting).

3 January at 19:56 | Open on mastodon.social
Mastokarl

@eighthourlunch @henry_barreto @jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey fully agree that an open-source search engine would be the one and only proof. For me, Kagi is a good compromise between privacy and power/usability.

3 January at 21:41 | Open on mastodon.social
tdped

@eighthourlunch @henry_barreto @jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey that makes me trust them more. That means you are the customer, not advertisers.

3 January at 21:36 | Open on mastodon.social
niu tech

@eighthourlunch @henry_barreto @jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey You can use @brave Search anonymously and for free, it is independent, it doesn't rely on Google like Startpage or on Bing like DDG.

5 January at 18:37 | Open on fosstodon.org
Swift

@henry_barreto @jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey kagi is all about AI. It's funded by the same bros. And it's a US company so there is no real privacy because of us laws.

I was a paying customer until it went big on the AI crap.

The heavy, I felt, promotion of AI and remembering not to add a ? to searches (which triggers an AI summary) annoyed me.

I found this article useful
d-shoot.net/kagi.html

But sure, other companies are also bad/worse, and google is dreadful.

@henry_barreto @jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey kagi is all about AI. It's funded by the same bros. And it's a US company so there is no real privacy because of us laws.

I was a paying customer until it went big on the AI crap.

The heavy, I felt, promotion of AI and remembering not to add a ? to searches (which triggers an AI summary) annoyed me.

3 January at 22:47 | Open on sunny.garden
Jcrabapple

@swift @henry_barreto @TheBreadmonkey lol their AI is completely optional but stay angry I guess.

3 January at 23:01 | Open on dmv.community
Graham Spookyland🎃/Polynomial

@henry_barreto @jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey Kagi is all-in on LLMs. I refuse to give them money on that basis alone. plus the CEO said some pretty questionable shit in interviews recently.

3 January at 23:01 | Open on chaos.social
Lilim

@gsuberland @henry_barreto @jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey I'm aware of the LLM thing, but can you elaborate a bit on the "some pretty questionable shit"? 🤔

4 January at 11:06 | Open on pol.social
The Book of Kels

@henry_barreto @jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey

Hasn't Kagi been trying to introduce "AI" for the past year or so? They were running around talking about how it'll "humanize" searches in April, at least.

3 January at 23:15 | Open on wandering.shop
Michael

@henry_barreto @jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey Here is is with the alternative Google-Frontend Whoogle, which uses Google Search Results without the AI-Spam. And there the results are ok

4 January at 12:58 | Open on mastodon.social
niu tech

@mschfr @henry_barreto @jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey You don't need Whoogle, just go to the Web tab in Google Search or append &udm=14 udm14.com

5 January at 18:25 | Open on fosstodon.org
Jcrabapple

@niutech @mschfr @henry_barreto @TheBreadmonkey yeah but Whoogle adds an extra layer of distance between you and Google which some people really want.

5 January at 18:26 | Open on dmv.community
Michael

@jcrabapple @niutech @henry_barreto @TheBreadmonkey And if you have the setup (proxmox or docker) it's really great: Just spin up the container, change default search in Firefox and you'll have tracking & ad free Google Search Results without the AI bullshit. And let's be honest: I don't trust Google to keep UDM14 or the web tab around for the next years.

5 January at 19:02 | Open on mastodon.social
Psymo

@jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey the fediverse strikes again. Just had to explore Kagi

3 January at 15:28 | Open on mstdn.social
Keagan

@jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey How are you finding Kagi? I think I last used it at a previous company for some project, but that was about 2 years ago now.

3 January at 15:40 | Open on infosec.exchange
Jcrabapple

@governorkeagan @TheBreadmonkey I love it and advocate for it. It's the way a search engine should be. It's like Google when Google was good, but it's private and more customizable.

3 January at 15:40 | Open on dmv.community
Keagan

@jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey That’s great to hear! I’ve been using DDG for years at this point but I love the idea of customising my search engine (e.g the mastodon toggle you have)

3 January at 15:41 | Open on infosec.exchange
Jcrabapple
eestileib (she/her/emacs)

@jcrabapple @governorkeagan @TheBreadmonkey

Kagi is about as good as Google was ten years ago. I pay for a family subscription to the basic search, have not tried their llm stuff at all.

Their maps are still developing.

3 January at 18:00 | Open on tech.lgbt
Mastokarl

@jcrabapple @governorkeagan @TheBreadmonkey 100% agree. And it doesn‘t offer you any sponsored content, your top search result is always the most relevant to you, and not the one that some company paid most for for your search terms.

I actually like that it integrates AI :-).

3 January at 18:58 | Open on mastodon.social
Jcrabapple

@Mastokarl @governorkeagan @TheBreadmonkey they do "AI" in a really smart way. Out of the way and completely optional.

3 January at 18:59 | Open on dmv.community
ikt 🇺🇦

@jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey i was going to say are we never going to hear the end of people saying google sucks? it has been YEARS at this point

4 January at 1:25 | Open on fosstodon.org
Vít Skalický :fedora:

@jcrabapple @TheBreadmonkey wow, this is quite relevant, much better than google. I'm getting good quality results with DDG as well, but some people have been complaining that DDG is as bad for them as Google. I live in Czechie in EU so maybe some of it is regional.

4 January at 14:14 | Open on fosstodon.org
Go Up