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Aral Balkan

I just installed the latest Postmarket OS (with Phosh) on a Pinephone and goodness they have come a long way.

The OS is basically usable. Which is amazing on such an underpowered device.

Also, convergence worked for me for the first time :) And yeah, I could easily use this with Helix Editor + git for development work on the go. (Keep in mind my daily dev machine is a 16-core desktop with 64GB RAM. So, no, it’s not the same experience. But is it usable? Heck yes.)

#pinephone #linux #phones

27 Jun 2022 at 10:35 | Open on mastodon.ar.al
68 comments
Aral Balkan

The biggest roadblock to my adopting this as a daily driver at the moment is the lack of secure messenger (e.g., Signal)

reddit.com/r/PINE64official/co

(This isn‘t Pine64’s fault; it’s due to Signal’s policies over which platforms they support and which they don’t.)

#pinephone #linux

27 Jun 2022 at 10:39 | Reply | Open on mastodon.ar.al
  Draisinen Dieter
@aral For signal there is https://flathub.org/apps/details/org.nanuc.Axolotl
Also Dino(XMPP Client) works very well on mobile.
27 Jun 2022 at 10:45 | Reply | Open on tristram.uber.space
  blackfire

@aral there is an alternative which works. axolotl

27 Jun 2022 at 10:45 | Reply | Open on fosstodon.org
  Aral Balkan

@blackfire Unfortunately (again because of Signal), it doesn’t interoperate.

Sadly, Signal is about as closed as open gets.

27 Jun 2022 at 10:54 | Reply | Open on mastodon.ar.al
  blackfire

@aral how do you mean it doesn't interoperate? as in you can't see something? i thought it showed up in your linked devices?

27 Jun 2022 at 11:48 | Reply | Open on fosstodon.org
  Aral Balkan

@blackfire Basically, if you sign up for Axolotl using the same number, it breaks your Signal account.

github.com/nanu-c/axolotl/issu

27 Jun 2022 at 11:54 | Reply | Open on mastodon.ar.al
  blackfire

@aral o...... i did not know about that. thanks for catching me before i screwed up.

27 Jun 2022 at 12:27 | Reply | Open on fosstodon.org
  Aral Balkan

@blackfire Hmm, actually, having re-read it, I’m not so sure. It may be that what it breaks is the ability to use Signal’s own clients. It might be that if you use Axolotl everywhere (mobile + desktop), it’s fine. They call it a *client* so I’m assuming it works with Signal’s own servers. What worries me is that Signal has been hostile to anyone else making anything for Signal, period. So even if this is the case, they might break it on purpose. (And maybe they did? github.com/nanu-c/axolotl/issu)

@blackfire Hmm, actually, having re-read it, I’m not so sure. It may be that what it breaks is the ability to use Signal’s own clients. It might be that if you use Axolotl everywhere (mobile + desktop), it’s fine. They call it a *client* so I’m assuming it works with Signal’s own servers. What worries me is that Signal has been hostile to anyone else making anything for Signal, period. So even if this is the case, they might break it on purpose. (And maybe they did? github.com/nanu-c/axolotl/issu

27 Jun 2022 at 14:07 | Reply | Open on mastodon.ar.al
  Aral Balkan

@blackfire Update: axolotl apparently doesn't work on Postmarket OS according to this: wiki.postmarketos.org/index.ph

27 Jun 2022 at 19:42 | Reply | Open on mastodon.ar.al
  Mathijs

@aral @blackfire I host a matrix server with a signal bridge, which works quite well.

Of course that bridge has access to the plaintext of signal, but since that runs on my own server in my home I don't mind.

27 Jun 2022 at 19:54 | Reply | Open on mastodon.technology
  jokeyrhyme

@aral I've been contemplating trying out FluffyChat ( fluffychat.im/ )

However, it took so long to get this small portion of my friends/family to use Signal for me (whilst they still use Facebook Messenger amongst themselves, urgh), that getting them to move to yet another thing seems like an uphill battle

FluffyChat does seem to have a web app and a native Linux app

27 Jun 2022 at 10:57 | Reply | Open on aus.social
  Sr. Estegosaurio
@jokeyrhyme @aral FluffyChat is a nice Matrix client. And yeah convincing people to switch from crappy services is a challenge. Good luck with that. :)
28 Jun 2022 at 11:33 | Reply | Open on plr.inferencium.net
  elias

@aral yes, foss companies gotta get on the linux phone train.

27 Jun 2022 at 11:08 | Reply | Open on go.arkadi.one
  FediThing
  calebjasik

@aral if you want an encrypted matrix client that’s almost sure to work, you could use matrix.org/docs/projects/clien; it’s optimized to runbon anything over having a wholly complete feature set.

i’m uncertain that matrix has the same metadata privacy controls as signal does, but they are also working on a p2p solution that runs a local Dendron server; matrix.org/blog/2020/06/02/int

though i’m sure you’ve heard of all of this 🤷

27 Jun 2022 at 11:48 | Reply | Open on mastodon.social
  Aral Balkan

@calebjasik Yeah, Matrix is just too complicated for me to get my simple little head around, sadly.

27 Jun 2022 at 11:55 | Reply | Open on mastodon.ar.al
  arbocenc

@aral @calebjasik

I don't think @matrix is specially complicated. You don't need to setup a new instance, just create an account and choose and app like #fluffychat , #elements or even a terminal client.

You can also use a #telegram - #matrix bridge to communicate with your telegram contacts.

27 Jun 2022 at 13:03 | Reply | Open on todon.nl
  calebjasik

@aral mmm i think it’s similar to other federated platforms like mastodon, no? you can get a quick account via chat.mozilla.org and signing in with a Firefox account if you have one, mozilla irc transitioned to matrix a couple of years ago: matrix.org/blog/2019/12/19/wel

27 Jun 2022 at 13:44 | Reply | Open on mastodon.social
  Aral Balkan

@calebjasik Thanks. I mean, I have taken a look at it. It’s overly complex and I’m not a fan of extreme complexity. I find it quite unusable. Also, not happy that they have VC (matrix.org/blog/2019/10/10/new) while appearing as “a foundation.” Smells very Mozilla. So I’ll be steering clear.

27 Jun 2022 at 14:18 | Reply | Open on mastodon.ar.al
  calebjasik

@aral fair. i always wondered how hard it would be to implement chat over activitypub, though i don’t know what allowance there is in activitypub for e2ee

27 Jun 2022 at 14:21 | Reply | Open on mastodon.social
  Csepp 🌢

@aral @calebjasik They seem much more privacy conscious than Mozilla. Can't comment on the protocol complexity, but I use about three clients regularly and they cover most functionality I want. Check out Nheko if you want a nice pmOS-friendly client, it's basically on par with Element.
The ecosystem around the protocol seems pretty healthy to me.
(And unlike Mozilla they can sell server hosting. I doubt they'll need to rely on Google.)

27 Jun 2022 at 17:39 | Reply | Open on merveilles.town
  calebjasik

@csepp @aral btw, google funds nheko if you didn’t know matrix.org/blog/2020/09/09/gso

hmm i can’t find more info tho? i remembered google strongly funding the project…

27 Jun 2022 at 17:45 | Reply | Open on mastodon.social
  calebjasik

@csepp @aral tho i believe it’s different from firefox in the sense that nheko is just one client

27 Jun 2022 at 18:06 | Reply | Open on mastodon.social
  Clayton

@calebjasik @aral

nheko also works really well on phosh, and supports viewing/attaching media, etc. And e2ee seems to be working reliably in DMs and rooms.

27 Jun 2022 at 17:12 | Reply | Open on freeradical.zone
  Farshid Hakimy

@aral you could use a Matrix-Signal-Bridge and use a Matrix-Client on your phone

27 Jun 2022 at 12:18 | Reply | Open on chaos.social
  Aral Balkan
  Farshid Hakimy

@aral Just in case you decide to try it out: this ansible playbook makes installing and configuring the server and bridge a lot easier github.com/spantaleev/matrix-d

27 Jun 2022 at 14:12 | Reply | Open on chaos.social
  Aral Balkan

@farshidhakimy Thanks, appreciate it. But it’s just not for me, I don’t think :)

mastodon.ar.al/@aral/108549866

27 Jun 2022 at 14:18 | Reply | Open on mastodon.ar.al
  Eivind

@aral #Briar could be an alternative, but I can't tell if it's ready for Linux phones yet. It seems not.

27 Jun 2022 at 12:40 | Reply | Open on mastodon.fjerland.no
  arbocenc

@eivind @aral

And what about @delta ? I'm using it on my #pinephone and I can reach all of my contacts, because it uses #email, and they don't need to install #deltachat to receive and send me messages...

27 Jun 2022 at 13:00 | Reply | Open on todon.nl
  Aral Balkan

@arbocenc That does look interesting. Will definitely have a play with it, thanks.

(Mind you, it has taken years for folks to finally start signing up for Signal so… *sigh*) But yes, will check it out :)

@eivind @delta

27 Jun 2022 at 14:22 | Reply | Open on mastodon.ar.al
  nuttua

@aral @arbocenc @eivind @delta I'd be interested to learn what you think of Delta. Very user-friendly but how can email be secure? Also, how about Threema? Seems wonderfully secure to me - I can't actually find anyone to chat with. But it has a Linux client, it can be used anymously, even without a phone nr, and on Android at least it's light on the battery.

27 Jun 2022 at 20:46 | Reply | Open on mastodon.social
  elias

@aral @arbocenc @eivind @delta YES. I've spend like a decade getting family signed up for Signal so trying to switch them to something else. ugh. they aren't techies.

28 Jun 2022 at 0:59 | Reply | Open on go.arkadi.one
  Delta Chat

@aral On top of Delta Chat as e-mail messenger you might find webxdc.org interesting -- web apps shared in a chat -- isn't it strongly related to web0 / small web ideas? :)

28 Jun 2022 at 7:31 | Reply | Open on chaos.social
  Aral Balkan

@delta I very much did find it interesting and yes, it absolutely is. In fact, we should have you on Small Is Beautiful to talk about it if you’re up for it (we stream every third Thursday… next one’s 21st of July if you’re free) :)

28 Jun 2022 at 7:35 | Reply | Open on mastodon.ar.al
  Aral Balkan

@delta PS. owncast.small-web.org (the link to Small is Beautiful there has past recordings, although I have to get the last few up on the site still when I get a moment) :)

28 Jun 2022 at 8:11 | Reply | Open on mastodon.ar.al
  LINux on MOBile
  kelbot ◖⎚∠⎚◗

@aral There are other secure messaging programs that work just fine on the Pinephone like XMPP. However, there is one big drawback with any internet-based messaging on the Pinephone. You have to choose between decent battery life and getting notifications of new messages. To get acceptable battery life the system must suspend and the only thing that will wake it up is a phone call or SMS. If you want the network to stay connected to receive and notify of new messages then you have to keep it from going to suspend which significantly reduces battery life.

@aralThere are other secure messaging programs that work just fine on the Pinephone like XMPP. However, there is one big drawback with any internet-based messaging on the Pinephone. You have to choose between decent battery life and getting notifications of new messages. To get acceptable battery life the system must suspend and the only thing that will wake it up is a phone call or SMS. If you want the network to stay connected to receive and notify of new messages then you have to keep it from...

27 Jun 2022 at 18:09 | Reply | Open on retro.social
  Daniel (CactiChameleon9)

@aral I self host synapse and the mautrix-signal bridge to use signal on mobile linux. It works really well! (I have actual signal installed on my android tablet, but you can do bridge only)

27 Jun 2022 at 18:16 | Reply | Open on pleroma.doserver.duckdns.org
  Netto Hikari 🇩🇪🇯🇵❤️🇺🇦

@aral I personally think, an alternative to Signal is necessary. I think the devs are really toxic and Signal's UX is far from being on par with Telegram's UI / UX (I know, Telegram bad).

27 Jun 2022 at 18:35 | Reply | Open on social.3rensei.xyz
  グレェ「grey」

@aral IMHO (and I'm am not alone in this) Signal is "snakeoil security" and best avoided anyway.

27 Jun 2022 at 20:04 | Reply | Open on mastodon.social
  Eric

@aral You could setup a matrix home-server and bridge signal over to matrix. Before using a pinephone to access the home-server.

Its a bit of a painful setup for a messaging solution but it should work on a pinephone.

27 Jun 2022 at 22:12 | Reply | Open on fosstodon.org
  minecraftchest1

@aral
Depending on your needs, Matrix (matrix.org) and Element (element.io) with encrypted rooms (the default on private rooms, required on direct messages) should fit your needs. I think there is even a Signal bridge you can host.

28 Jun 2022 at 1:46 | Reply | Open on social.opendesktop.org
  Nebula1000

@aral deltachat for 1o1 and matrix for groups

28 Jun 2022 at 6:48 | Reply | Open on infosec.exchange
Etienne

@aral Good to know, thanks for this update 🙏

This is encouraging! I tested Mobian about a year ago, and I'm wondering if they also improved upon since then, to the point where the Pinephone that I own would be "usable" now.

27 Jun 2022 at 11:11 | Reply | Open on diaspodon.fr
Normand C. :postmarketos:

@aral I've been on #postmarketOS edge since last December. My #Pinephone is my main, with SIM card. I use it daily.

Earlier this year I had some issues that made me want to switch OS, but I didn't have the motivation to do so. Since then, most of the issues have been fixed. I do sorely miss a functional GNOME Software though.

And I should at least go back to the proper 21.06 release which should be more stable than the edge channel.

27 Jun 2022 at 17:59 | Reply | Open on fosstodon.org
  Normand C. :postmarketos:

@aral Oops, I meant the 22.06 release of course.

27 Jun 2022 at 19:13 | Reply | Open on fosstodon.org
Petre

@aral I installed Postmarket OS (with Phosh) on my Pinephone yesterday. I did not test extensively, but I had some issue, but it's usable.
I mainly use it as Home Assistand dashboard.

Unfortunately flapaks don't seem to be able to access the camera... I wanted a QR code scanner, but no luck.

27 Jun 2022 at 19:56 | Reply | Open on fosstodon.org
Kermode

@aral How about the camera this time around? Everything else is good. It's the only reason to keep changing for me.

27 Jun 2022 at 23:42 | Reply | Open on tilde.zone
  Aral Balkan

@gemlog It’s nothing to write home about. The back camera is serviceable. Front camera quality is comparable to the GameBoy’s (I exaggerate, but only slightly. Horrible yellow tint. Or pre-filtered retro if you’re a glass-half-full kinda person.) :)

28 Jun 2022 at 6:58 | Reply | Open on mastodon.ar.al
DELETED

@aral The fact that we consider the PinePhone underpowered says a lot about us as a culture, I think.

I know *I* can't do two billion calculations every second :P

28 Jun 2022 at 2:51 | Reply | Open on fosstodon.org
  purple 👊✊💨

@pixelherodev@fosstodon.org @aral@mastodon.ar.al we can't do two billion per second but we can do insanely complex ones in nanoseconds.

a computer has a lot of issues with "how far to the left do i need to jump to catch a ball -- also i'll be landing on dirt", which is to say it takes two billion calculations for a computer to figure out.

off topic but maybe give our old meatbags some credit 😌

28 Jun 2022 at 3:04 | Reply | Open on nya.social
Sr. Estegosaurio
@aral I really want to install gentoo on one of those...
28 Jun 2022 at 11:31 | Reply | Open on plr.inferencium.net
Aral Balkan

So just a quick follow-up: this is still nowhere near ready for everyday use by everyday folks as you basically need to use the console/ssh to install apps (Software is not currently working). Just a heads up.

If you’re a dev, sure, play with it and maybe even help make it better. I’ve switched my sim card over to it as a small experiment to see how much it changes my everyday experience.

#pinephone #postmarketOS

28 Jun 2022 at 13:36 | Reply | Open on mastodon.ar.al
Tribbick

@aral How about reliability receiving calls? Some calls would silently be rejected and if they did come through, the speaker would mute itself as soon as the phone was restarted, so I'd miss the first few seconds until I could turn it up

28 Jun 2022 at 14:35 | Reply | Open on mstdn.social
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