Gregory's ServerI genuinely don't understand what Apple's trying to do with this pissing match with the EU. If the goal is to drum up public opinion against the DMA, Apple's a "multiple trillions of dollars" company, they aren't the scrappy upstart making quirky iPod ads in the 2000s, they ARE the institutional player. Nobody has sympathy for "uwu we are being bullied by regulators" from the mouths of the megacorp.
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31 comments
@thomholwerda @stevestreza I had to move from mac to windows because of how annoying apple fans are and I didnt want any part of it. @aqunt    @stevestreza it seems to be working on the Apple diehards, i've already seen a bunch be like "waaa, the EU will be behind because it'll miss on bleeding-edge features because of the DMA" š @Eramdam
I think you might be surprised how many people will very happily accept Apple's framing of the issue  @stevestreza On the other hand, only a multi-trillion another corporation has the resources to push back against the entire EU. My guess is that is their goal, and this has been a long time coming. Sooner or later, the EU was going to impose enough restrictions on digital companies that we would see a company pull the "It is no longer economically viable to offer our products and services in the EU marketplace" card... And see if the European community has become globally monocultural enough to call the EU's bluff. @mark It is very funny to refer to a company deliberately violating regulations put in place against that specific company as "pushing back against the entire EU".  Let them pull out of the EU. It's not like it's a 500-million-people largely quite wealthy market that Apple could ill afford to loose. I can't shed a tear for a supranational extremely arrogant US megacorp who thinks they are mightier than God and deserve anything and everything they want and demand @dmitriid @stevestreza indeed, I think that's the next play in this game. I believe Apple is seeking to determine whether a 500-million-person-quite-wealthy demographic is dependent enough on their ecosystem of products and services that they would be willing to leverage the power such wealth and influence brings to try and push back on the EU's new laws. What soft power can they leverage that will make it politically inconvenient for the EU to continue to pursue this gatekeeping strategy? You mean, what soft power can we leverage to make it inconvenient for Apple to pursue its gatekeeping strategy. I also like that you basically say "Apple should figure out how to hold Europeans hostage to get whatever it wants" As for the EU, first understand what the EU is and does: https://www.baldurbjarnason.com/2024/facing-reality-in-the-eu-and-tech/ Thank you for this very detailed and measured response! I could argue or disagree with some minor points, but that would not be productive. The only "big" disagreement I have is "if Apple withholds services in compliance with the law" in that this assumption rests on Apples claims. And we've already seen in the past how Apple reversed course after making similar claims. But yeah, it truly is a huge weird bet, so we'll need a lot of popcorn to watch how it plays out.  @mark @dmitriid @stevestreza Apple, like us, has historical evidence that Google prefers to follow Apple than compete. Android is not very different than iOS. Apple may even have personal relationships or contracts that make Googleās position more likely to be that of follower than competitor. Google could surprise us all though. EU regulations certainly give Google reason to break with Appleās direction and I would hope theyād capitalise on it if Apple withheld features in EU. @mark @dmitriid @stevestreza I think Apple is not risking much by _threatening_ to withhold features: they can change their mind at any time, so small competitors would be taking a big risk trying to compete in those areas and Google will be competing anyway. They do risk confusing and annoying EU customers, but I guess they think the sabre-rattling helps negotiations with the EU or theyāre doing it to manage stock market expectations. @callionica @mark @stevestreza I doubt that Google is institutionally capable of doing anything in this regard. Ads are their only revenue source, and this permeates every decision they make. Add to that the many internal warring factions, and you get a surprisingly disfunctional company that shifts directions almost every year.  @mark Are you aware of how fully Apple has capitulated on their products and human rights in, say, China? @stevestreza @stevestreza itās useful to read John Gruber about Apple stuff because heās good at thinking like the people inside of Apple - you can look at the flaws in his thinking and see if they act as good predictors of how Apple ends up behaving. What Iāve seen from him recently is an inability to understand that the EU has genuinely different values than an American of his age and economic class, along with a petulant desire to show up those who disagree. I bet heās mirroring the attitudes of Apple executives. (about Apple values) @stevestreza they want to affect future regulation ( in US probably ) if they create "feeling" that EU regulation is bad for AI then we can not do more regulation of AI in US because we are better than EU, of course...  @stevestreza There are actually plenty of people who think that Apple are the good guys and that the EU regulators are meddlers. Here's one. @stevestreza I mean, to be fair: Apple fans are special sometimes. So it might just work. @stevestreza but we should have sympathy for this commission that tells us we are too stupid to choose for ourselves what we want? Appleās closed system has always been proven lightyears ahead when it comes down to privacy and security. In the meanwhile in the EU we are still clicking āreject cookiesā on every website whilst cookies are still being installed. š @stevestreza Maybe it's also just about money. It's more difficult and expensive to follow EU's rules. I think most Europeans thinks it's great when EU fines big corps like Apple and Google for not complying with our laws. The laws are here to protect the citizens. @stevestreza Anyway, what I wanted to say is, that I'm so used to Apples features not coming to my country until often a couple of years after. Both because of EU's regulations and because I live in a small country with a silly language. |
@stevestreza It also seems they just don't understand how negatively the average European views big megacorps. We despise them, deeply. Like, we choose government over corporation any day of the week.
I don't think they really understand what they're up against here. The DMA and similar laws are insanely popular here, as is the EU - despite the rightwing hate campaign, the EU enjoys like 80+% support here.