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Mark T. Tomczak

@stevestreza How could it be otherwise? If the EU wants to go to war with Apple and Apple wants to take up the banner instead of capitulating to a foreign power, what would you recommend we call it?

Apple isn't based in the EU and it can, in fact, pull up stakes and simply not offer products and services that are incompatible with the EU's opinion of how the internet should be run to EU citizens (and then leave it to the citizens of the EU to use their democratic authority to change those incompatibilities. Or to decide they prefer it the EU's way and they'd rather not have Apple's products and services. Or to discover that they never had those Democratic authorities in the first place, and then... Uh oh! In the 21st century, most war is economic war).

21 June at 20:02 | Wall-to-wall | Open on mastodon.fixermark.com
10 comments
dmitriid

@mark @stevestreza

Let them pull out of the EU. It's not like it's a 500-million-people largely quite wealthy market that Apple could ill afford to loose.

I can't shed a tear for a supranational extremely arrogant US megacorp who thinks they are mightier than God and deserve anything and everything they want and demand

21 June at 20:10 | Open on mastodon.nu
Mark T. Tomczak

@dmitriid @stevestreza indeed, I think that's the next play in this game.

I believe Apple is seeking to determine whether a 500-million-person-quite-wealthy demographic is dependent enough on their ecosystem of products and services that they would be willing to leverage the power such wealth and influence brings to try and push back on the EU's new laws.

What soft power can they leverage that will make it politically inconvenient for the EU to continue to pursue this gatekeeping strategy?

21 June at 20:13 | Open on mastodon.fixermark.com
dmitriid

@mark @stevestreza

You mean, what soft power can we leverage to make it inconvenient for Apple to pursue its gatekeeping strategy.

I also like that you basically say "Apple should figure out how to hold Europeans hostage to get whatever it wants"

As for the EU, first understand what the EU is and does: baldurbjarnason.com/2024/facin

21 June at 20:22 | Open on mastodon.nu
Mark T. Tomczak

@dmitriid @stevestreza If Apple cuts off services in compliance with the law, is it Apple holding EU citizens hostage, EU citizens holding themselves hostage (i.e. "They saw this law coming; why didn't they distance themselves from Apple's ecosystem and find alternatives?"), or EU's regulators holding citizens hostage?

I think Apple is betting there's more than one answer to the question.

(To be clear: it's a huge, weird bet and I respect the opinion that the starting-gate position should have been "Don't do that." But I've been watching governments regulate the Internet long enough to also not accept the premise that regulators are always right in what citizens want or need. It'll be interesting to see how this sifts out).

FTA:

The EU absolutely is for protecting and strengthening the European single market.

No disagreement there. But I also observe that Apple is under no obligation to be aligned with that goal (over, say, strengthening and regularizing a global marketplace that simplifies the creation of Apple's products by requiring fewer special cases).

The EC has identified six gatekeepers, zero of which are European companies. This specific move is pretty naked protectionism (which, to be clear, is well within the EU's purview). Apple is making an... Interesting decision by saying "Okay, we play ball. You're protected. Someone else, we're sure, will backfill the products and services we provide."

(ETA: What I find most interesting in all of this is that Alphabet is also a gatekeeper company and, AFAIK, they are playing ball. So Apple is really betting that their offering is so good that people won't jump ship to Android, which is more-or-less "right over there" from a consumer perspective.

Will that bet work? I'll be interested to see).

@dmitriid @stevestreza If Apple cuts off services in compliance with the law, is it Apple holding EU citizens hostage, EU citizens holding themselves hostage (i.e. "They saw this law coming; why didn't they distance themselves from Apple's ecosystem and find alternatives?"), or EU's regulators holding citizens hostage?

21 June at 21:05 | Open on mastodon.fixermark.com
dmitriid

@mark @stevestreza

Thank you for this very detailed and measured response!

I could argue or disagree with some minor points, but that would not be productive.

The only "big" disagreement I have is "if Apple withholds services in compliance with the law" in that this assumption rests on Apples claims. And we've already seen in the past how Apple reversed course after making similar claims.

But yeah, it truly is a huge weird bet, so we'll need a lot of popcorn to watch how it plays out.

22 June at 8:14 | Open on mastodon.nu
Callionica

@mark @dmitriid @stevestreza Apple, like us, has historical evidence that Google prefers to follow Apple than compete. Android is not very different than iOS. Apple may even have personal relationships or contracts that make Google’s position more likely to be that of follower than competitor. Google could surprise us all though. EU regulations certainly give Google reason to break with Apple’s direction and I would hope they’d capitalise on it if Apple withheld features in EU.

22 June at 8:47 | Open on mastodon.social
Callionica

@mark @dmitriid @stevestreza I think Apple is not risking much by _threatening_ to withhold features: they can change their mind at any time, so small competitors would be taking a big risk trying to compete in those areas and Google will be competing anyway. They do risk confusing and annoying EU customers, but I guess they think the sabre-rattling helps negotiations with the EU or they’re doing it to manage stock market expectations.

22 June at 8:54 | Open on mastodon.social
dmitriid

@callionica @mark @stevestreza

I doubt that Google is institutionally capable of doing anything in this regard. Ads are their only revenue source, and this permeates every decision they make.

Add to that the many internal warring factions, and you get a surprisingly disfunctional company that shifts directions almost every year.

22 June at 8:55 | Open on mastodon.nu
Johan Pelck Olsen

@mark @stevestreza EU has no desire to “go to war with Apple”. EU is trying to protect its citizens. If you put a fence around a chicken coop you’re not going to war with foxes. The fact that Apple is trying to weaponize features of their operating system as political campaign tools doesn’t imply that they are subject to an attack.

And like any other company, if Apple is unable to run a viable business while respecting the rule of law, then good riddance. But I do think Apple are the ones doing most of the bluffing here.

@mark @stevestreza EU has no desire to “go to war with Apple”. EU is trying to protect its citizens. If you put a fence around a chicken coop you’re not going to war with foxes. The fact that Apple is trying to weaponize features of their operating system as political campaign tools doesn’t imply that they are subject to an attack.

22 June at 7:00 | Open on expressional.social
Alex Holst

@mark Are you aware of how fully Apple has capitulated on their products and human rights in, say, China? @stevestreza

22 June at 8:25 | Open on helvede.net
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