I use Vivaldi but I would really like to see more attention to quality. Breaking things randomly in minor releases and then taking half a year to fix them is not okay, guys. A public issue tracker would also help, instead of the scream-into-the-void bug report form. I understand that you've taken everything from the old Opera team, but this part should've been left behind.
Are social media platforms that utilize algorithmic feeds inherently anti-free-speech?
In normal discourse, we all have a voice and we all have the choice whether to listen. In the algorithmic space, formulas are used to decide which voices to amplify and also which voices to de-amplify.
Here on Vivaldi Social (Mastodon), I see posts that people I follow post, including posts they choose to boost. No formulas needed. This is, IMHO, the closest to free-speech you can find, although there are some hate speech rules, which is IMHO a good thing. Basically the same as in normal, social discourse.
On Facebook I see posts Facebook thinks I want to see (and boy do they get it wrong), as well as a lot of AI generated nonsense. There are some posts in there that I am interested in, but most are not.
Twitter has turned into amplification of what Elon wants to amplify, mostly hate speech and misinformation. There are still interesting voices in there, but they are harder and harder to find.
Are social media platforms that utilize algorithmic feeds inherently anti-free-speech?
In normal discourse, we all have a voice and we all have the choice whether to listen. In the algorithmic space, formulas are used to decide which voices to amplify and also which voices to de-amplify.
Here on Vivaldi Social (Mastodon), I see posts that people I follow post, including posts they choose to boost. No formulas needed. This is, IMHO, the closest to free-speech you can find, although there are some...
Anonymous poll
Poll
Agree
164
85.9%
Disagree
27
14.1%
191 people voted. Voting ended 11 November at 13:13.
@jon I'd agree that closed, proprietary algos definitely bless some speech and surpresss others. Studies show YouTube's algo recommendation drives over 77 percent of all video views. What I hope for the Fediverse is that most clients default to just a reverse-chron algo, but then also let USERS create, share and tweak algorithms, that they are empowered to use, or not use.
The pedantic in me notes that "algorithms" can be a bit vague (after all, old/new sort is an algorithm 🤓), but I do understand you mean the more modern, AI-infused ones, such as engagement, allowed narratives, sentiment (positive/negative, happy/angry), whether bigger/verified/famous accounts interact with the piece of content, etc. provided that the content itself is not hate speech or otherwise illegal.
One of the reasons I like Mastodon over lemmy/reddit is that here we do not have the negative interaction (downvotes) and therefore do not have a negative algorithm that plunges things to the bottom or auto-hides them. If someone is merely saying something like "I like drinking coffee with hotdog water" we can safely ignore them. If we feel strongly, we can reply, and that in itself can mitigate some negativity, as opposed to a downvote and making the person feel bad for their personal tastes. 🌭☕️
The pedantic in me notes that "algorithms" can be a bit vague (after all, old/new sort is an algorithm 🤓), but I do understand you mean the more modern, AI-infused ones, such as engagement, allowed narratives, sentiment (positive/negative, happy/angry), whether bigger/verified/famous accounts interact with the piece of content, etc. provided that the content itself is not hate speech or otherwise illegal.
Twitter used to show linear timelines. IIRC at one point they moved to a hybrid model where an algorithm would boost interesting tweets in your timeline that you were likely to miss because they were too far down. This kind of algorithm can actually lift marginalized voices that would otherwise be buried in the traffic.
But any algorithm that optimizes for “engagement” is likely to boost incendiary or plain false content because they get a lot of replies. Unless it’s paired with a content moderation system that stamps out intolerant speech—and it never is—such intolerance will get boosted for engagement.
Twitter used to show linear timelines. IIRC at one point they moved to a hybrid model where an algorithm would boost interesting tweets in your timeline that you were likely to miss because they were too far down. This kind of algorithm can actually lift marginalized voices that would otherwise be buried in the traffic.
I have for the last 11 years talked about the problem with user profiling and algorithmic content. Creation of echo chambers and the ability to easily manipulate what people see for marketing purposes and worse. Even made a cat video to try to make the point. I wish more would see this.
The point is not for political parties to see the potential here, but rather to see the risk. The only way to fix this is to ban user profiling.
You have made a good choice to move the the Fediverse. It would help for more of your friends to join us.
I have for the last 11 years talked about the problem with user profiling and algorithmic content. Creation of echo chambers and the ability to easily manipulate what people see for marketing purposes and worse. Even made a cat video to try to make the point. I wish more would see this.
The point is not for political parties to see the potential here, but rather to see the risk. The only way to fix this is to ban user profiling.
@jon Thanks for this post - it's probably one of the two main reasons I chose to join Fedi. I know, however, that follower/following dynamics can cause echo chambers, albeit ones that are much more visible and less abusive than those subtly formed by profiling.
Do you have any advice for minimizing these echo chambers, or when an echo chamber may become a problem rather than just being a convenient portal to a common interest?
@jon@EUCommission I work with AI/LLMs alot. It is relatively easy to spot bias when it is spoken out loud; it's more insidious when things are hidden and omitted. Google Gemini and ChatGPT will not answer questions about White, Wealthy, Conservative Men. Google and the tech oligarchs have an agenda.
@jon
Honestly, I still believe that crypto could be used as legitimate alternative currency that can be private and also act as a universal currency in the age of the internet.
However as you said, most crypto is no longer that. The issue is that there is no actual control on how much any crypto is worth at any given time. Even stuff like art follows the same story because of the same reasons. Instead of using it like actual currency, it's being used as an investment to make more fiat money
@jon I disagree, look at coins like Litecoin that normally floats around the $100AUD you say it’s unstable and to volatile here the last 5 years and here is the USD to AUD it’s more volatile and causes more stress to Australian businesses who get bills in USD.
Cryptocurrency is the future, even governments and Federal Reserves are saying that.
Not a big fan of what crypto has become.
But I was enthusiastic about it earlier.
(Not early enough)
Especially the prospect of #NFT enabling distributed property titles and regulating the scam that are the stock exchanges. eg: short selling used as a weapon to destroy businesses.
I almost feel like folks who assert #crypto is a scam, haven't really looked close enough what the #banksters are doing with the economy, which currently is the alternative.
Not a big fan of what crypto has become.
But I was enthusiastic about it earlier.
(Not early enough)
Especially the prospect of #NFT enabling distributed property titles and regulating the scam that are the stock exchanges. eg: short selling used as a weapon to destroy businesses.
I almost feel like folks who assert #crypto is a scam, haven't really looked close enough what the #banksters are doing with the economy, which currently is the alternative.
New release of Vivaldi on iOS. Version 7.0. Plenty of improvements, but an important highlight is the much faster syncing feature and ability to customize the main menu, the kind of thing you would only expect in Vivaldi.
I asked you what OS you are using on a daily basis. The survey allowed you to select more than one OS. These are the results:
There really are a lot of Linux users here. Happy to see that. Windows and Mac are similar in size. Android is larger than iOS, but not by a much in this survey.
A few are using ChromeOS, but there is an impressive 3% using other OS on a daily basis!
@jon The "other" is probably the Fediverse retrocomputing community plus those who use one of the *BSDs plus those whose retort is "Linux is a kernel, not an operating system". 🙂
Congress in the US has banned Copilot for security reasons. I would take it further. Really the way Windows is coded now, it is a significant security problem. The idea that it is unclear whether you are using local data or online data is unacceptable.
This includes:
- Login. Login should be local. You are not logging into a service. You are logging into a computer. The service should be separate from the computer.
- Copilot. Clearly another case where you may not realize that you are sharing data by asking a question.
- OneDrive. Another case where local data is backed up in the cloud, without active actions by you as a user. Backup is great, but you should have to explicitly enable it and there should be a warning that your data may be scanned.
- Windows. In reality even Windows is now a problem given the login issue and any tracking that is happening.
Online cloud services can be great, but one should never be forced into online services or lured into them. Any computer should work fine without having to use OS online services, except basic services, like updates and the like.
Congress in the US has banned Copilot for security reasons. I would take it further. Really the way Windows is coded now, it is a significant security problem. The idea that it is unclear whether you are using local data or online data is unacceptable.
This includes:
- Login. Login should be local. You are not logging into a service. You are logging into a computer. The service should be separate from the computer.
@jon Since 2020, I've just made a switch to Linux full-time and as of this year I'm now locally backing up photos/videos to my own home-serve using the Immich project.
@jon Yes, but you forgot Outlook and its new grab-your-emails rubric. If you don't allow MS cloud to copy all your emails from local or other cloud services, then you can't get updates (and the program will keep nagging you that updates are available). #darkpatterns#microsoft
There is a lot of reasons to love Mastodon and the Fediverse. One of them is the lack of algorithmic content. It does take a bit longer to get going and build up content providers, but not having a feed full of crap is all worth it!
It is time to invite more of your friends to join us. Invite to your current server or you can invite them to Vivaldi Social! Help them get going. They will thank you!
We at @Vivaldi continue to be the only browser company all in on Mastodon and the Fediverse.
We have made our own instance, Vivaldi Social. Any user that has a Vivaldi account for sync or other services, can easily enable a presence on Vivaldi Social.
We have integrated Mastodon as a Web panel into Vivaldi.
We include links to Vivaldi Social into Vivaldi.
We also work on integrating our blogs and forums into the Fediverse.
We hope others will follow. Mozilla has talked a lot and we hope they will join us fully soon.
We at @Vivaldi continue to be the only browser company all in on Mastodon and the Fediverse.
We have made our own instance, Vivaldi Social. Any user that has a Vivaldi account for sync or other services, can easily enable a presence on Vivaldi Social.
We have integrated Mastodon as a Web panel into Vivaldi.
@jon@Vivaldi Great news, especially about the blogs. I already use Vivaldi as my goto browser. I will consider switching to vivaldi.social if you bring your blogs to the fediverse. A federated Ghost alternative with newsletters would be great. Write.as offers newsletters with WriteFreely, but only on their paid service.
You're doing great things Jon, and the longer Mozilla takes to embrace the #Fediverse the better it is for #Vivaldi.
But there's some glaring misgivings here that are often raised by people. Half the #Fediverse isn't mastopub - you should really consider replacing that icon in the panel with the Fediverse Logo, or even the ActivityPub Logo instead of the one you've currently got in that sidebar - It's quite misleading, and people who prefer using the more full featured and capable Fediverse platforms such as Friendica, Mitra, Socialhome, GoToSocial, Takahe, The Pleroma and Misskey families of forks, smolweb Fediverse platforms like Bovine, SNAC, Tapir, and many more, ... These stalwart #Fedizens and #Privacy_conscious people shouldn't have to look at some exclusionary elephant logo that completely misrepresents and dismisses the fact that the masses of these people don't even use that platform.
These Fedizens most certainly should not feel forced into being pigeonholed into an association, in front of others, which implies that they use masto.
Here's an example of what our diverse world of #DeSoc's #Fediverse_Logo looks like - that elephant thingy really only offers an homage to one single platform, losing user market share more rapidly each day, in favor of a better and more complete user experience with superior networking facilities.
Wishing you and the team all the very best, and looking forward to seeing the #logo in that sidebar that more accurately represents the community at large, and is also much nicer looking :)
I hope you continue to shepherd the trailblazing innovation that Vivaldi has shared and introduced, and join now with the trending wave of sites replacing that tired old elephant graphic for either of the logos that more closely and accurately represents the unifying inclusivity and diversity indicative of the residents in our Fediverse.
You're doing great things Jon, and the longer Mozilla takes to embrace the #Fediverse the better it is for #Vivaldi.
But there's some glaring misgivings here that are often raised by people. Half the #Fediverse isn't mastopub - you should really consider replacing that icon in the panel with the Fediverse Logo, or even the ActivityPub Logo instead of the one you've currently got in that sidebar - It's quite misleading, and people who prefer using the more full featured and capable Fediverse...
I have been waiting for this moment. Every public broadcaster should join the #Fediverse and #Mastodon. IMHO, you should set up your own servers, but that is not hard either.
@jon
Hey! We're a lot of people here who has asked NRK (sent mail to NRKbeta) if they won't set up shop here. I'd love if you would chime in as well, who has some weight. An Ytring on NRK.no?
Please tell your colleague, that this isn't true. I had to set up a filter to remove this topic from my feed. (Yes, I'm looking at you, @kontrollierterWahnwitz! 😉) Fortunately this is really easy and works really well.
One of the first applications I made, when working at Televerkets Forksningsinstitutt, the research department of the Norwegian Telecommunications company, was a word processor for the ODA document format. Inside it we also had a mail client. X.400 based mail client.
Now I get the impression a lot of people actually do not know what a mail client is, so on to todays survey.
What mail client are you using?
If you have not tried the Vivaldi Mail client, yet, built into the Vivaldi browser, now might be a good chance to do it. Just saying.
One of the first applications I made, when working at Televerkets Forksningsinstitutt, the research department of the Norwegian Telecommunications company, was a word processor for the ODA document format. Inside it we also had a mail client. X.400 based mail client.
Now I get the impression a lot of people actually do not know what a mail client is, so on to todays survey.
- Workspaces, tab stacks and tab tiles.
- Sessions panel.
- Mouse gestures.
- Quick command, including command chains.
- Extensive, customizable keyboard shortcuts, including single key keyboard shortcuts and spatial navigation.
- Built in tracker blocker and ad blocker.
- Built in mail client.
- Build in calendar.
- Built in feed reader.
- Page actions.
- Page capture.
- Web panels.
- Window panel.
- Placement of tabs on left, right, top or bottom.
- Themes with custom icons and editable UI.
If yes, you are using @Vivaldi. If not, how about giving it a try? 😀
- Workspaces, tab stacks and tab tiles.
- Sessions panel.
- Mouse gestures.
- Quick command, including command chains.
- Extensive, customizable keyboard shortcuts, including single key keyboard shortcuts and spatial navigation.
- Built in tracker blocker and ad blocker.
- Built in mail client.
- Build in calendar.
- Built in feed reader.
- Page actions.
- Page capture.
- Web panels.
- Window panel.
- Placement of tabs on left, right, top or bottom.
- Themes...
It allows to auto-hide bookmarks, tabs, browser arrows&update the page button each individually, etc.
Also, #Vuvaldi doesn't let's me to watch higher quality videos then 1440p.
#Firefox , #Librewolf , #Waterfox do allow me to watch **without buffering** (on my HD screen it buffers) 4K videos.
On mobile, I can set a custom search engine, specifically in Firefox and Waterfox, but you can't do it in Vivaldi for Android. Synchronization isn't comfortable solution.
@jon@Vivaldi It's true, Vivaldi has it all, but I don't need it all that much. But I need a good browser with open source code and Google-independent engine. That's why #Firefox.
@jon@Vivaldi > NOTE: This package is not officially endorsed or supported by Vivaldi Technologies.
This statement made me stay on the traditional model.
@jon@Vivaldi It is not technically possible to determine reliable figures. It is possible to determine the browsers used per website, but even that is not always reliable. I think that the user numbers are published by the browser manufacturers on the basis of telemetry data.
One day after launching Vivaldi on iOS, Vivaldi is the top iPad app in Norway and #5 on iPhones. Not a bad start at all. We are on the list in many other countries as well.
Make sure to share the great news with all your friends! @Vivaldi is now available!
@jon@Vivaldi It looks very neat! I like the design language even better than on Mac. ☺️
But I can't find a way to setup my search engine, https://kagi.com... 😔 (It's possible in Firefox on iOS - see image.)
If it's not currently possible, I'd love to see it added to the list! A tracking _and_ ad-free search engine should be right up your alley. ☺️
Gregory's Server
@jon safari and Firefox. Alternative to chromium-based browsers.
I use Vivaldi but I would really like to see more attention to quality. Breaking things randomly in minor releases and then taking half a year to fix them is not okay, guys. A public issue tracker would also help, instead of the scream-into-the-void bug report form. I understand that you've taken everything from the old Opera team, but this part should've been left behind.