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Delta Chat

Those of you who have to work through Google, Apple and other store's compliance, we feel you! Maintaining around 16+ target distribution sites for cross platform apps takes a constant toll on us.

One of the giant features of #webxdc app developments is precisely that no store is needed. You can just write an index.html, a .js file and pack into a zip file and everyone can use this as an app in their chats, no store needed for permission and distribution.

webxdc.org/docs/

Delta Chat

We just boosted a report from someone (we don't know) summarizing and reporting about recent court happenings in Moscow against us. We confirm these legal proceedings are indeed happening and we are represented by a lawyer there ... wetdry.world/@cybertailor/1135

There are rumours that a theater play work-titled "how to arrest a protocol?" will be presented at #38c3 btw :)

SP

@delta how shameful 🥹! How do they even have any jurisdiction? Can't you just ignore them?

Delta Chat

Are you interested in enshittification-resistant application development?

After almost two years of collaboration with the wonderful @n0iroh team, we are happy to announce that #deltachat 1.48 apps on all platforms contain top-notch Peer-to-Peer networking support, including hole-punching and forward-secret end-to-end encryption. It is exposed through the new #webxdc realtime APIs and there are some nice initial showcase apps 🎉

delta.chat/en/2024-11-20-webxd

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LPS
@delta @n0iroh looks amazing, especially the ephemeral live chat app!
Ditol

@delta
Sounds really cool. It is really a pity that delta chat doesn't seem to get much adoption. (At least I don't know anyone who uses it.)

@n0iroh

Delta Chat

With our #deltachat #chatmail and #webxdc efforts we put all intelligence on the end devices, and architecutally separate it from a transport layer that routes safely and fast but knows nothing.

There are a dozen or more #chatmail servers across many jurisdictions, all safely interopable with each other and classic servers.

Turned out we can dumb down email servers by relying on cryptography instead of IP reputation and ai/spam filtering. And have 200ms delivery times. We are not done :)

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Daleth Hausmeister

@delta

Runs very well on a Raspberry Pi Zero 2 with 40°C and less then 1 Watt over mobile-internet.

No other concept do so.

breadcat

@delta aside from latency, jurisdiction shouldn't matter with proper e2ee

Mick

@delta Delta chat is a very good messenger. I love it. The only drawback I have compared to xmpp messengers is that it does not support audio and video calls. I know this is difficult with emails, but if somehow you could make a calling sound when somebody calls to a jitsi video meeting ID that is already registered with Delta chat account.

Delta Chat

Maybe the secret why the #deltachat project with "just" a dozen active contributors succeeds in delivering cross-platform apps, instigating the #chatmail server network and spearheading the #webxdc app paradigm, lies in asking the right questions:

- Is it really needed?

- Can we not do it?

- Is there a simpler way that requires less changes?

- What is the interesting next impl step that is already interesting itself for users, without requiring first completing a big refactoring project?

Delta Chat

Did you know that #deltachat does not need and does not use key servers? Most other messengers (wa/signal/matrix/threema/...) actually operate or incorporate a cryptographic key server, managing the cryptographic identities of all users. Delta Chat uses decentralized protocols for key management avoiding a central storage of identities. The SecureJoin protocol is the key (sic!) innovation and was independently analyzed by ETH Zürich researchers earlier this year .... delta.chat/en/2024-03-25-crypt

Did you know that #deltachat does not need and does not use key servers? Most other messengers (wa/signal/matrix/threema/...) actually operate or incorporate a cryptographic key server, managing the cryptographic identities of all users. Delta Chat uses decentralized protocols for key management avoiding a central storage of identities. The SecureJoin protocol is the key (sic!) innovation and was independently analyzed by ETH Zürich researchers earlier this year .... delta.chat/en/2024-03-25-crypt

Delta Chat

Third time is a charm!

Watch us tirelessly explaining to Roskomnadzor how e-mail works! The three innovations in our third reply are that we

a) request the international law their request is grounded on (as if they would care)

b) communicate that their assumptions, even according to russian laws, are wrong (as if they would care)

c) state explicitly that Delta Chat is unlike WhatsApp, Signal or Telegram (doh!)

#chatcontrol-delenda-est

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Dominik

@delta Funny enough this also happened the other way round to the russian developers of the XABBER Android Jabber/XMPP client receiving a letter from the German @BNetzA due to a similar failure to understand how that app worked:

cmshs-bloggt.de/tmc/telekommun

Delta Chat

Great, so #chatcontrol was not moving forward today thanks also to various interventions from folks around the fediverse .... In particular thanks @Mer__edith for the clear take from Signals side. But it's clearly not canceled and Hungary will retry getting it through, and France, having elections soon, might drop out of opposing it? Let's stay vigilant about #chatcontrol and help eg @netzpolitik_feed and @edri and other groups to help us working against authoritarian #chatcontrol fantasies.

Delta Chat

We got note of three #deltachat articles from different angles the last days:

Roskomvoboda, human rights org in russia, interviewing @Xeniax about our recent interaction with the russian telco authorities. roskomsvoboda.org/ru/post/delt

@unixtippse about "do's and don'ts" after re-engaging with Delta Chat happily.
binblog.de/2024/06/15/deltacha

@durian about Signal and "Delta Chat for anarchists" phlanticap.noblogs.org/delta-c

We got note of three #deltachat articles from different angles the last days:

Roskomvoboda, human rights org in russia, interviewing @Xeniax about our recent interaction with the russian telco authorities. roskomsvoboda.org/ru/post/delt

@unixtippse about "do's and don'ts" after re-engaging with Delta Chat happily.
binblog.de/2024/06/15/deltacha

Delta Chat

As you know, governmental forces within the EU, the US, the UK, Russia and others are in a hot competition on who gets to be the first to subvert end-to-end encryption. A few days ago, we got another letter from Roskomnadzor, the #russia telco authority, to help them get at user data or metadata for #deltachat users. But there is no central registry of e-mail addresses, messages or decryption keys. So we declined. Sorry, not sorry.

Show previous comments
bijram

@delta but without reading all our private messages #EUGoingDark will happen - NOT

arutaz

@delta but what will you do when Chat Control becomes law in EU?
Leave the EU market? Still exist for people using android and f-droid or a like?

t3x
@delta

Роскомпозор продолжает копать под всё и вся.
Уроды.

#roskompozor #roskomnadzor #ru
Delta Chat

While we do have criticisms of its centralized architecture and other choices we highly regard Signal for ushering in a decade of popularizing end-to-end encryption. We particularly appreciate @Mer__edith doing excellent communication work there. It's disingenuous that tech-billionaires Musk/Dorsey fuel attacks on her and another female colleague, hinting at Telegram as a more secure messenger. Comparing security of Signal with Telegram simply results in "Type Error: incompatible arguments".

Vibuda Nimsara

@delta @Mer__edith Signal is overall better for content privacy than Telegram.Telegram audio and video calls are also E2EE.But comparing Telegram Secret Chat and Signal Messages I think Telegram Secret Chat has more privacy and anonymity.Ex:peer to peer #messaging with E2EE.

#signal #signalapp #telegram #E2EE #privacy #messagingapp

Delta Chat

Often overlooked from our "but e-mail!" skeptics: Any sufficiently advanced P2P messenger will eventually re-invent a custom, partial form of e-mail ... because users want to communicate when their apps are offline or not foregrounded and active at the same time. See briarproject.org/download-bria for a recent example.

Delta Chat goes the reverse route by providing a secure and interoperable e-mail based messaging experience and then adds P2P tech like webxdc.org on top.

Often overlooked from our "but e-mail!" skeptics: Any sufficiently advanced P2P messenger will eventually re-invent a custom, partial form of e-mail ... because users want to communicate when their apps are offline or not foregrounded and active at the same time. See briarproject.org/download-bria for a recent example.

rakoo
@delta

This begs the question: when will we see a version of Delta Chat that is fully P2P, essentially a mail-server-in-my-smartphone. Sounds like a stupid idea until it doesn't. If the phone of my correspondent is up, no third-party. If it isn't, I can contact their backup, vps-hosted mail server thanks to... MX priorities. Everything is there already.
silverpill

@delta

>Any sufficiently advanced P2P messenger will eventually re-invent a custom, partial form of e-mail

That's correct, pure P2P is a pipe dream. The solution, however, is federation, and email is only one protocol among many.

ActivityPub should work just as well, but it is modern, extensible, with a rapidly growing userbase, and may eventually replace email. Consider supporting it. The secure fediverse messenger still doesn't exist, and many have promised to build one, but you can be the first who actually delivers.

@delta

>Any sufficiently advanced P2P messenger will eventually re-invent a custom, partial form of e-mail

That's correct, pure P2P is a pipe dream. The solution, however, is federation, and email is only one protocol among many.

ActivityPub should work just as well, but it is modern, extensible, with a rapidly growing userbase, and may eventually replace email. Consider supporting it. The secure fediverse messenger still doesn't exist, and many have promised to build one, but you can be the first...

Delta Chat

Delta Chat is an in-between project: often ignored as a messenger by e-mail companies/experts and then ignored by messenger companies/experts because of its use and interoperability with e-mail. As Heinz von Foerster once said: "If you are doing something genuinely new then don't ask the experts. If you do something that has already been done, then, by all means, ask the experts." FWIW many experts have verified Delta Chat's security mechanics delta.chat/en/help#security-au :)

Delta Chat

The problem with asking the experts about something genuinely new is, according to Heinz von Foerster, that they will only explain to you why it can't work or why it is a bad idea. We had no shortage of such experts in the past years :) However, common objections like
"e-mail is too slow", "secure e-mail is not possible", "you can not do a Whatsapp-style interface on top of e-mail" are having an increasingly hard time to be upheld because of the reality of Delta Chat apps working :)

Delta Chat

"but e-mail !1!!!" Is probably still a number one objection from experts and power users who refuse to fathom that e-mail protocols are a viable option for instant messaging even if it demonstrably works, is fast and secure :) We'd be happy if someone engaged in a proper comparison with xmpp and matrix specs and impls, really the only three messenging protocols deployed and implemented at scale. (Can't compare that with Signal or WhatsApp which don't have wire specs!). github.com/deltachat/deltachat

"but e-mail !1!!!" Is probably still a number one objection from experts and power users who refuse to fathom that e-mail protocols are a viable option for instant messaging even if it demonstrably works, is fast and secure :) We'd be happy if someone engaged in a proper comparison with xmpp and matrix specs and impls, really the only three messenging protocols deployed and implemented at scale. (Can't compare that with Signal or WhatsApp which don't have wire specs!). github.com/deltachat/deltachat

rakoo
@delta

What would you like to see compared ? Overhead ? Time of implementation ? Resource usage ?
DelegateVoid

@delta The fact that it's "just e-mail" is what makes it so wonderful and why it has saved my ass while all other means of IM are actively blocked where I live. So keep going!

Delta Chat

The default setup of #chatmail is for open signups (anyone can get an address) but some operators implement a private signup protocol and that's fine and easy enough to do because github.com/deltachat/chatmail/ is a small machine.

Chatmail addresses should be abundant and safe to use for anyone , and cheap to operate with basic skills .... A few thousand chatmail routers might already cover adresses for 10 billion people, with less resource/energy usage than a single VC funded LLM startup :)

Delta Chat

#deltachat just got four major usability improvements as the 1.44 releases are rolling out
💗 Reactions on all platforms
💗 iOS Push notifications
💗 Multi-account desktop sidebar
💗 share invite links via other messengers. Enjoy :)
delta.chat/en/2024-03-12-jumbo

DELETED

@delta The only missing feature is the a/v calls . I hope you'll still implement it by default

🔻 Christophe Herbet

@delta

with Multi-account desktop sidebar, black screen on the pinephone @mobian or @pmOS stable

Delta Chat

Given the experiences of the last decade it's healthy to distrust #decentralized tech if

- it's mainly developed by a centralized power structure
- the involved technology is very complex
- there is coin or VC funding involved

#deltachat has 1/100th, if even that, of what other popular messenging projects have in terms of moneys. But our distributed top-notch expertise in UI, crypto, networking tech and our federated collaborative practises across these concerns, try to make up for it ...

Delta Chat

Reclaiming Peer-to-Peer Web technology with #webxdc out of the ashes of "Web3": our 2024 opening post on the topic :) delta.chat/en/2024-02-15-webxd

Psst: we are looking for more folks experienced with Web app development with a knack for P2P technology .... #deltachat

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Lutin Discret

@adele est-ce que tu as regardé un peu @delta ? Je trouve que ça correspond à beaucoup de tes pratiques. Les applis webxdc se limitent à 640 ko. Je pensais que le bot pour publier sur un write.as te plairait aussi (c'est pas .md par FTP mais on est pas loin !)

manisha

@delta excellent music choice for the party! 😁​

Delta Chat

Today, we are unveiling chatmail services, making onboarding with #deltachat a breeze, with peace of mind.

#chatmail marks a major milestone, answering the practical question of "where can i get a deltachat-ready account" for myself and friends?

Read more on delta.chat/en/2023-12-13-chatm

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GreenskyVai

@delta I have been using denta chat for 5 or 6 years already and I must say that the app is getting better and better, good job folks

MiaPlan.de

@delta I think this would make a nice default option in the DeltaChat app

Delta Chat

The 1.42 app releases are rolling into the stores, providing a major security upgrade that was long in the brewing and testing: guaranteed end-to-end encryption, protecting against compromised servers or networks (MITM attacks). The releases also enable multi-device synchronization of pinned/accepted/blocked/muted chat states, a new global gallery for desktop and many bug fixes and little improvements .... #deltachat delta.chat/en/2023-11-23-jumbo

Michał Narecki

@delta my favourite messenger just got better 🥳

حسین

@delta

MITM was a big concern. Great job in handling that!

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