Gregory's Server@christianselig Just another reason to push for decentralized social services.
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64 comments
@gracjan @fishcharlie @christianselig I'm a Mastodon user new to the Fediverse. Do these related services like Lemmy require making a new account? @swalchemist @fishcharlie @christianselig If someone is using another software that’s part of the Fediverse (Lemmy, Pixelfed, PeerTube, etc), you can follow them from your Mastodon account. You don’t need to create an account on that service. You also should be able to comment on and boost their posts.   @nf3xn @fishcharlie I 100% acknowledge this problem. Currently the landscape on Lemmy is small and weird to say the least (and I haven’t used it yet for these reasons), but it might change if more normal people start creating their own servers.  @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn so it's not going to be replacing reddit. The point of reddit is that it's one place, where you go to /r/anime for all anime discussions, /r/kpop for kpop, etc... Once you have dozens of instances, each with their own sub-communities... things get way more out-of-control in terms of discoverability and centralization (which is what you kinda want with Reddit, in my use-case at least) @falcon @fishcharlie @nf3xn You can have everything in one place. You can be on one instance and follow communities from another instance. It works similarly to Mastodon in this way. 1 - No. If you have 10 anime communities, you end up with 10 threads for discussing each weekly episode, not one. 2 - If it works similarly to Mastodon, does that mean there's also the problem where I might not see replies on a thread, like happens on Mastodon? Because if yes, it also misses the point of having a discussion thread if I can't read all replies (apart from private/blocked ones, of course)... @falcon @gracjan @nf3xn Sounds like you want the benefits of centralization in a decentralized system. However, I’d push back on the first point a bit. There is nothing stopping someone from creating r/anime and r/animeofficial. However, I question if these are truly big enough issues to stifle usage once it matures. Once you get enough federation, it feels like the real world impacts of these issues are minimal or nonexistent. > Sounds like you want the benefits of centralization in a decentralized system I don't. I never suggested a de-centralized alternative to Reddit. In fact, I was advocating that something decentralized would NOT be a replacement for Reddit exactly because it is decentralized. > There is nothing stopping someone from creating r/anime and r/animeofficial There's nothing, and it happens with new TV shows - Example, From (Paramount+). But when this happens, one of the communities ends up being the bigger one, and, since it's centralized, you know easily which one is bigger or more active. Which you wouldn't know in a decentralized environment, since your instance might not know about some other instance @fishcharlie @falcon @gracjan the devs not the admins, the people who make the software. @fishcharlie @gracjan @nf3xn Even Mastodon doesn't have enough federation yet, so I still need to use mastodon(dot)social for doing searches once in a while. @falcon @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn 1. That happens all the time on Reddit. That will not be any different in a decentralized environment. 2. This is a quirk of ActivityPub, not specifically Mastodon. There are currently projects in the works to remedy this, and I think a few fediverse software already fix this behavior using server side workarounds. @Silv @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn > That happens all the time on Reddit. That will not be any different in a decentralized environment. Haven't had trouble with that in 10 years using Reddit. Some people might want to have a different group and create a separate, smaller community, but it's always easy to find/spot what's the main one. (maybe not for porn, but for anything else that has been true for me) @falcon @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn Ah, I was addressing the point of multiple communities existing, I didn't realize you were making a point about discoverability of remote communities. ActivityPub is great for spreading information, but software such as Mastodon is terrible for presenting that data to the users. This results in poor discoverability features. As long as your instance is federated with a community, you can compare them @Silv @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn > This is a quirk of ActivityPub, not specifically Mastodon. There are currently projects in the works to remedy this, and I think a few fediverse software already fix this behavior using server side workarounds. Is this issue currently solved in Lemmy? @falcon @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn I think Lemmy solved this, but there are not enough federated activity to make this apparent to me. The documentation has significantly improved since I last attempted to run a Lemmy Instance. You may find some of your curiosities answered here: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/en/introduction.html I'll update this thread after I do some testing and find a conclusive result. @falcon @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn Update: It appears that Lemmy solved this issue. On Mastodon the user is considered the first-class actor, but on Lemmy the community is the first-class actor. Communities send a public announce whenever they are interacted with. This allows remote instances that are federated with the community to have full visibility of all posts, comments, and interactions from remote users. @falcon @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn To be fair, there are 50+ general anime subreddits and an ungodly number of specific show/theme subs. A lot of users, myself included, really don’t like the megasubs because comments and threads tend to get lost in the sauce. Smaller subs thrive because the communication is more consistent and digestible. Im aware I probably don’t speak for *most* users, but certainly a sizeable number of them @PuffPuffPeace @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn > there are 50+ general anime subreddits But only 1 'main' one, AFAIK, which is /r/anime > an ungodly number of specific show/theme subs. AFAIK, most shows only have 1 sub, or at least 1 'main' sub, so my point still stands. @falcon @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn I’d poke around a bit more then. Most default subs are “entry level” where 99% of people lurk. Quality discussion and an actual feeling of community develop outside of the default subs. The reason for so many subs about the same subject tend to stem from rule differences, mod interactions, and other meta schisms. I think this is healthy and leads to better community/discussion for active users @PuffPuffPeace @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn > Most default subs are “entry level” where 99% of people lurk. So... you are agreeing with me and proving my point that centralization is how 99% of the people use Reddit today, meaning de-centralization is not an actual replacement to it, but instead a different thing? @PuffPuffPeace @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn again... I'm not debating which is better or worse, or what's your personal preference. But either you are not actually reading what I'm saying, or you are just agreeing with me in a roundabout way @PuffPuffPeace @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn also, going with you example of multiple anime subs. If I search for something on Reddit, I'm going to find all posts/comments that mention that (unless I'm blocked, of course). With federation, there's a good chance I won't. That I already mentioned in another point above, that I still need to use my mastodon social account to search from time to time, because it has way more results @falcon @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn Where we diverge is on the need for one main hub per topic. But that is subjective. As to the needing to search via mastodon, this would be a great opportunity for an Apollo-like tool that could connect the dots. @christianselig any plans like this? @PuffPuffPeace @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn @christianselig > Where we diverge is on the need for one main hub per topic. But that is subjective. I give up, you seem to be just refusing to read. If there's a "need" or not, doesn't matter. It's how Reddit currently operates, which makes Lemmy different, so it's not a replacement @falcon @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn @christianselig Replacement ≠ Alternative People who are done with Reddit to the point of trying another service probably don’t just want another Reddit. Do I personally think Lemmy is “the one” that could do it? Probably not. But do I think if a good enough app came out that collected centralized everything client-side a lot of those issues would be moot and it’s a possibility. @PuffPuffPeace @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn > A lot of users, myself included, really don’t like the megasubs because comments and threads tend to get lost in the sauce. Smaller subs thrive because the communication is more consistent and digestible. Which is fine, then you want something different, and it's ok. My point still stands that de-centralization is not a replacement for Reddit, because it's inherently different. You don't end up with a centralized sub @PuffPuffPeace @gracjan @fishcharlie @nf3xn Lemmy would be more like a replacement - with a different UX - to forums, where each instance is a different forum, but one user account is capable of posting on multiple forums @fishcharlie @gracjan Given it is on the fediverse you should count yourself lucky to have upvote and downvote buttons. 😂 Oh wow, I just made a reply post yesterday mentioning Lemmy and wishing that it wasn't dead. Coincidentally timing. @gracjan @fishcharlie @christianselig @LemmyDev nah, Lemmy is run by Nazis so never using it @chocolatefossty @gracjan @christianselig @LemmyDev Great. That’s your choice. But as it stands right now, your post is completely meaningless considering you didn’t provide any sources, evidence, or proof. @chocolatefossty @fishcharlie @christianselig @LemmyDev Currently there are many communists, not Nazis, but I get the sentiment. I’m currently not using it either for that reason, but this situation can 100% change if more normal people start creating servers. No single person or group of people can control Lemmy, just like it’s the case with Mastodon. Lemmy is really small right now (just over 500 monthly active users).  @tivasyk @chocolatefossty the *flagship instance* of lemmy (.ml) is very pro-Russian, and I moved away from it when I started noticing people talking about "Ukrainian invasion" and seeing comments criticizing Russia being heavily downvoted. luckily, as with every part of the Fediverse, there's a bunch of instances to choose from. personally, I'm quite fond of Beehaw. @alexture I can vouch for them. They have a solid admin crew and an active user base. They aren't extremist on any political side. They just run the Lemmy software. @gracjan @fishcharlie @christianselig My favorite instance is https://beehaw.org, let’s move there. @gracjan @fishcharlie @christianselig I recently started using #Kbin on first interaction it seems better than #lemmy, certainly has better integration with other Fedi group platforms, like Friendica Forums, Lemmy communities, Gup.pe groups, etc.in addition to their native "Magazines" @realcaseyrollins @gracjan @fishcharlie @christianselig @realcaseyrollins and it doesn't have the "baggage" of being so closely tied to Marxist-Leninism. |
@fishcharlie @christianselig There’s a #Reddit alternative that’s a part of the #Fediverse (just how Mastodon is). It’s called #Lemmy. Maybe people could move to that. 🤔 @LemmyDev