Gregory's Server@emilymbender I'm worried here. I don't think we have the luxury to dream big regarding capitalism, not when fascism is already grabbing power around us.
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36 comments
 @Shachihoko @emilymbender If a swing at capitalism elects Trump president again, no, we are in deep shit. (He's not as reasonable as he once was.) If a swing at capitalism hands the US Senate to the Gop, we are in deep shit. We are already in deep shit…because we didn't see the danger and elected Trump once, because the Gop controlled the Senate and got to stack the courts, etc. Swinging at capitalism is a dangerous distraction at this point. @ech It sounds like his current campaigning is more extreme, more violent rhetoric, less connected with reality, than was his previous campaign. Which makes sense, his followers feed on outrage, and he needs to keep turning it up to keep them outraged. (But, to be honest, I don't have the stomach to listen to him, so I'm trusting someone paid to do so; I only skimmed a story in the Washington Post the other day. I think it is the kind of thing the Post is likely to get right, however.) I think the only difference is that he realized he can say completely deranged shit without suffering for it. Everything from "I could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue" to "I'll let you wait and see" (if he would accept the results) can be considered his tests of the waters. And then he actually refused to accept the results when he was voted out, and January 6th happened, and he STILL hasn't faced personal consequences for that. @Shachihoko @ech Some of the chickens are starting to come home to roost: E. Jean Carrol loss is fun. @Shachihoko @kentborg @emilymbender capitalism and fascism are not merely steady bedfellows. I'd suggest that fascism is an inevitable and unstable evolution of capitalism: the hoarding have's ensure the have nots turn against each other merely so the powerful can continue hoarding wealth. @NovaNaturalist @Shachihoko @emilymbender You are taking a long view that I think I agree with. But we have a very nasty short-term problem: An actual would-be dictator might win the next election, making it our last real election. A party that doesn't believe in democracy, peaceful transition of power, rule of law, nor even reality itself, might take full power. We need every vote we can get, even from conservatives who like capitalism. @Shachihoko @kentborg @emilymbender the funny part about this is that fascism and communism teamed up during the beginning of WWII because the Germans thought Marxism was a more natural ally in the fight against the capitalist west. @kentborg @emilymbender Those are not separate entities. Capitalism is the source of fascism. @thriveth @emilymbender But we desperately need to win elections. We need the votes of people who do not think capitalism is a dirty word. @kentborg @emilymbender If people are more willing to vote for a fascist than team up with an anti-capitalist, they are already fascists. If we want to beat of fascism, we need to talk openly about its root causes. The role of fascism is to absorb discontent with poverty and exploitation and direct it against minorities to shield the exploiters. If we cannot say that out loud, we have no other arguments left than bland moralism. @thriveth @emilymbender I get that you don't like people who are not willing to condem capitalism. But what do you hope to accomplish? Do you believe in democracy? If so, what result do you hope for from next year's US election? @thriveth @emilymbender Sorry, what did I get wrong? I thought you called those who don't align with "an anti-capitalist" to be "already fascists", and I took that as dislike. A lot of people don't see Trump as a fascist. And we still need to peel away as many of their votes as we can. A lot of people think capitalism is good. And we need as many of their votes as possible. We came very close to Trump staying in power by force, as dictator. We were lucky. @kentborg @thriveth @emilymbender @Avianbroski @thriveth @emilymbender Yes, chop down the evil bush immediately, destroy the roots after that. @yassin @emilymbender The problem at hand isn't how to abolish fascism, it is how to preserve our democracy past the next couple years, preserve it long enough to do anything of importance. @kentborg @emilymbender I totally get what you're saying. However, I am afraid that the capitalist class has vested interests to keep public choices within their accepted boundaries. The further liberal democracy tries to overstep these boundaries, especially regarding climate policies, the more ferocious the attacks on civil liberties will be in order to manufacture discontent and bigotry. @yassin @emilymbender This next federal election could be our last, and we might not even get that far. We have to win. Making this about capitalism means we will lose. People think they like capitalism. @kentborg @emilymbender This is like the give us time to mourn argument. It’s not a good time when fascism is on the rise, and why should we when it isn’t. When exactly is the right time and why did we let it continue? @GwladysPendlebury @emilymbender I'm not saying don't fight facism! It's the number one priority! Not letting our current fascist party take more power is the prerequisite to everything else. That means winning the next election. Americans think they like capitalism. If we make the next election a referendum on capitalism, we will LOSE. It doesn't matter how convinced you are, it matters whether we have convinced the electorate, and we have not. @kentborg @emilymbender Most Americans like capitalism, although they can’t define it, or socialism, or name the vice president at any given time and vote against their best interests. No way to change it, let’s just keep doing that. Fighting capitalism is fighting fascism. It has to be a continuous fight, always, continually, non-stop. @GwladysPendlebury @emilymbender What are acceptable outcomes from this coming federal election? @kentborg @emilymbender Kent doth protest too much, methinks. Sounds like you are pro capitalism and just trolling leftists. There are many ways of fighting capitalism including education, activism and at a minimum not actively working against those who do. The ‘it’s all about voting’ is a tired liberal narrative. The Dem love of polite racism is exhausting, and disgusting. @GwladysPendlebury @emilymbender That sounds like Trump winning is okay with you. You live in a deluded luxury if you think this is an option. Me? I'm willing to cooperate with conservative capitalists, if they believe in democracy. @kentborg @emilymbender There you go again with the voting bit. Did you know you can walk, chew gum, vote against Trump, protest police brutality, be dissatisfied with the policies of the politicians you voted for, and educate those around you about economic exploitation all at the same time? When you vote for someone you aren’t bound to worship them. It’s not, or it shouldn’t be, a cult. @GwladysPendlebury @emilymbender We can win elections or lose elections. Make this about capitalism and we will lose. @kentborg @emilymbender The original post said nothing about elections. You are obsessed with elections. It’s a self-own on your part that you are willing to work with conservative capitalism which is the economic basis of fascism. @GwladysPendlebury @emilymbender Elections determine a lot. We have a big one coming up. @kentborg @emilymbender You aren’t fooling anyone trying to shame leftists, when leftists have been the ones warning against fascism for 50 years. We see you. @kentborg @emilymbender I am afraid that the only way forward is through at this point. I believe that civil war is imminent. I still encourage voting for the Democratic Party but I am fully prepared for the worst. #Fascism #Politics #GOP @robertnorlyn @emilymbender I won't say I'm fully logistically prepared for the worst, but I certainly fear the worst. |
@kentborg @emilymbender
We need to fight both of them at once. Fortunately, capitalism and fascism are pretty steady bedfellows, so a good swing at one stands fair odds of at least clipping the other.