Gregory's ServerHow much public space we've surrendered to cars (Swedish artist Karl Jilg)
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@stux Replace the wooden boards with bridges and you got Constantine - Algeria
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28 Nov 2022 at 9:31 | Open on freethinkers.lgbt
@stux People in horses and carts... and cars, and buses, and bikes, and trams. It's where we are as a society. It wasn't always that way, it won't always be that way. @alexgranford You claim that we won't be able to maintain standard of living without transportation, but cars are nowhere near the most space efficient, fast, or reliable form of transportation. The art shows how much public space where interactions and exercise and such have been given up to inefficient hunks of metal that low quality of life. @leet Next art would surely portrait someone appalled with cars, delivering few pallets of groceries to a local shop on a bike. Even if from a local train stop, not a logistics hubโฆ Canโt wait. @alexgranford This does not seem a bad thing, and you forget the idea of public transport, he might even get a special license to drive a truck or something safely to deliver the goods. The reduction of cars, not the abolition of transportation, mate. @leet No problem to use a car less if public transport allows us getting around. in fact we do already a lot, train to work, bus to school. But buses in rural England is a flipping disaster costing a fortune and almost never on time with an hour interval in between - between 7am to 10pm. Also, same public transport and trucks will use the same road infrastructure and will keep pedestrians on pavements still. So that picture is very misleading and misguided, hence the challenge. @alexgranford No, when there is a tram and a truck, you can still walk in the street. When there is 500 cars lined up and ready to hit you a 60mph, you can't. There is a big difference between a pedestrian city with services and a car hellscape where if you step out of a 1m area you die (only a slight exaggeration is some cities.) @mitgibs @stux i have an exemple for you. This the same place in Prague, before the cars there was public transport walkable streets and space for people. Now it's a place always filled with trafic. Cars will always be needed because public transport isn't suited for everything (ex:a remote village where 6 people live). U can greatly diminish cars in city thanks to public transport. AND NO we didn't re-purpose space We created a horrible place for cars. @xVAF @mitgibs @stux @leet @mitgibs @stux yes public transport can service remote villages but there are some that just can't be serviced by it (villages in: mountains, hardly accessible places. Would like trains to fix everything but it's not possible). Cars are needed for all sorts of things (not everyone needs one), there are jobs that especially need one (plumber,electrician,ambulance,police) that isn't the bigger part of the population, it's like 5% of the cars on the streets, there is also disabled people. @xVAF @mitgibs @stux @xVAF @mitgibs @stux For an ambulance you might use a car-type, or a little push cart you load on a tram/bus/rail. Something like that could work, though that I would leave to state medicare officials to know about. (by state I mean nation, not provincial, maybe municipal could work to help in weird situations like Quebec.) @mitgibs @stux the problem is that the spaces in cities and towns that used to be for community with businesses, schools, homes and parks that were all walkable distances from one another are now roads and streets and parking lots. It hurts any sense of community you might have and makes poor people hurt because they need a car or public transportation in order to get anywhere. The entire model of a car-first city was built because of lobbying by car manufacturers. @stux One should note here, that the space above the road (where there is air) serves important purposes for air circulation and allowing sunlight to reach the window. The goal here shouldn't be getting rid of the space, but use it better than for cars. For example: Outdoor cafes, trees, lawns, and so on. @stux only cars? Dont forget the bicicles and those electrical scooters as well @rui_almeida @stux There is usually no danger or traffic lights in places where only bikes and scooters are allowed. So, no. @xVAF @stux oh i was speaking about all i see in the streets in Lisbon region (where i live and work) where some people using bikes and those scooters dont respect others. I know this is a pointless conversation, everyone wants to be right but its confusing as pedestrian or a car driver and have all the beware of the rest of the people (sorry my english is not so good)... @rui_almeida @stux @stux To be fair, 150 years ago the same cartoon could have read "Look how much space we've surrendered to horse drawn carriages". The important thing is being able to power our transportation sustainably so in 150 years the cartoon doesn't read look how much of our city we've surrendered to the ocean. #sustainable #renewables #EV #commonsense #globalwarming  @treekeeper @stux I mean yesss... but there are old clips showing people milling about on foot, and bikes, and carriages, and trams - all using the roads at the same time because it wasn't so incredibly dangerous as it is now. @sarajw @treekeeper @stux I have those pictures for an exemple if you want(same place in Prague. In front of the train station) @xVAF @treekeeper @stux Right? Even with early cars around, the roads are far less stressful. Then, there were far fewer people in general... I was thinking of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEvB_ZIWtAg @sarajw @treekeeper @stux i mean early cars don't seem much dangerous cause there is so few of them. And in the USA there are cities that didn't grow much (less 100k in 100 years) had Public transport and decided to destroy it and put in roads. You can also have big cities with great public transport and few cars in them. @treekeeper @stux It's not about power sources, but about public spaces and safety. EVs are still cars, and many areas should be taken away from them. @Alanpoole @stux No, the complete abolition abolition of vehicles is not really a bad thing. Wear a parka and use a bike and trailer or use a a specialty vehicle (like a van), also, do you never go outside in slightly diagreeable weather. That seems ridiculous. @stux The alternative was people getting killed, which was happening when cars first started to hit the road. Whatโs interesting, car manufacturers invented the term โJay-walking.โ But having lived in a city where there is almost no traffic separationโฆ.Iโll keep what we currently have. Even if you got all cars off the road, youโd still have traffic separation for public transportation. @sully1503 @stux Public transportation doesn't take nearly as much space as private vehicles do. @sully1503 @stux https://www.jtlu.org/index.php/jtlu/article/view/1526 I would also appreciate it if you don't use your American slang towards me. @sully1503 @stux @sully1503 @stux The auto manufacturers got mad and made a law that means that people can no longer protest. This was "J-Walking". This law was not good grace but good riddance to pesky people exercising first amendment rights. Frick those pesky "trying to not die" people. Frick'em. @stux love this perspective. Now add the PM10 air particles to the air we breath because of cars.  @stux Most people complaining about cars think that life in major cities is the only life that matters. @yoshimitsu @stux the critic is about cities not villages. In cities you could get rid of a car and still everything would be the same. In rural areas you need a car for transportation because there is no other solutions. @yoshimitsu @stux outside major cities, the prevalence of cars is even worse. No public transports, no sidewalks on roads... You can't even walk along the roads 'cause if you walk ON the road, it's dangerous, cars go really fast, and if you walk on the side, it's full of pits, vegetation, cliffs... I like it! At least we now have the #ULEZ so the air is getting cleaner - but if anything cars are still getting bigger.... @stux there are still areas all over the world (old and new) where streets with zero vehicle access. In those areas the 'street' can be 1-2m wide. We are not sacrificing space to cars, we are allocating that space for vehicles in addition to the pedestrian sidewalk. @stux For reference, commissioned for the Swedish Transport Administration (Trafikverket) in 2017  @stux I am surrounded by auto repair shops and parking lots filled with broken autos. People think my house is abandoned because there are no autos in front and my driveway is roped off. @stux I remember the beginning of the Covid era in my town because the streets were empty of cars and the humans started walking in the middle of the street. The few cars that were out and about waited for them rather than rushing by. I remember walking down the center of Arlington Blvd, which usually has a steady stream of cars, twirling around with my arms outstretched (and one eye still keeping a watch for approaching cars. ๐ ). We were also allowed to walk on the golf course. Whooo Whoo! @stux thatโs the image that pushed me over the edge and fully radicalized me into joining the War on Cars.  @mkristensson @stux You have a bike helmet on. How would you feel about cars if you needed crutches to walk a few feet but an accessorized car gave you the freedom to drive anywhere & park within accessible distance to where you want to go? @stux I really like how this is visualized. When you really think about it. "Big Auto" really did a number on how society developed, and it's not for the best. And it's very hard to "pivot" because (especially in America), people are lazy and resist change, especially if it means they have to exercise more and take care of their local spaces better. @stux Always good to at least link back as a way to credit the artist if you're going to literally steal their intellectual property to boost your own profile. I'm sure creators of original content would appreciate the views and followers just as much as you! https://www.instagram.com/kallejilg/?hl=en @stux or not as the case appears to be, streets in the 1700s were just as wide , presumably for horse and cart traffic ๐ค @stux As a midwesterner, this image doesn't spark any profound thoughts for me. Lol. It's the corner of two streets. Maybe if I lived in NYC all my life.... @stux This goes nicely with the article I read in the NYT's yesterday https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/27/upshot/road-deaths-pedestrians-cyclists.html?searchResultPosition=1 @stux Do not forget that the idea of wide streets is also somehow new. It is mainly a XIX century idea and changes such as Haussmann's renovation of Paris. Before, the streets were very narrow and extremely hard to travel by foot (Medieval planning). In fact, for a relatively short time, we had wide streets with a relatively low traffic and only in some cities. I am not saying it is fine, but the historic track is different from what most people think. I invite reading papers by Laurent Turcot. Genuine walkability and urban planning on a human scale is little more than a dream in most major US cities. @stux in most Taiwanese cities there isnโt even this much space left over for pedestrians ๐ข @stux Although driving round town when the pubs and clubs empty round here and you'd think you were in a zombie movie. You don't blow your horn as the muppets stumble across the road infront of you as they will stop, turn to you and shout obscenities. It's quicker if you let them be to move out the way. Too much!! We should measure need and money spent. For Bike lanes $/daily user. Same for sidewalks and shared use paths for pedestrians. We should build ped and bike infrastructure out from city and town centers taking back some of our roads. Off road networks that connect town centers should be prioritized. @stux I've noticed joggers bikers or walkers tend to complain about all the new e-bikes or cargo bikes. We're fighting over the scraps - That is the problem. @stux haven't had a car since the beginning of the pandemic. Previously had a company car. Living in the suburbs with teenagers is a bit of a struggle, but the dept and cost of running didn't make sense. This is 100% the healthiest we've ever been. ๐ค @stux I love this drawing, and am 100% behind the sentiment it expresses. @stux except if there were no cars, greedy developers would just move the buildings closer together @stux this also illustrates the problem I've seen with modern buildings being built out to the sidewalk, eliminating green space and natural & human considerations for utilitarian purpose and commerce. @stux this has bothered me since I was a kid, possibly triggered by Joni Mitchell's Parking Lot. In my area so much is covered in bitumen so I've secretly (not so secret now) been seeding the edges with mycellium and get great joy in seeing mushrooms rip up the bitumen a few years later. @stux Although Iโve read it wasnโt so great for pedestrians in the horse and carriage days. Still, excellent art! @stux Brilliant. I wonder if there's one that animals are posting somewhere: "How much space we've surrendered to humans" ๐ค . |
