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Eugen Rochko

Having been here since 2016, I can tell you there is definitely no such thing as a consensus on usage of content warnings on the fediverse. It's a decentralized network that doesn't belong to any one party, so by definition there is no single culture on it. Different corners have different expectations and customs.

280 comments | Expand all CWs
Eric Davis ✅ ✔️ ☑️

@Gargron Thank you for all the work you've done and continue to do here!

Escarpment

@Gargron I think it's a great discussion (though I seem to get blocked by someone every time I wade into it). I'm still very interested to see a section on that in an open source "constitution" of sorts for the fediverse. Servers could adopt the constitution in whole or in part.

Escarpment

@Gargron Then when people enter a dispute about content warning or no content warning, they can check their respective server rules and use that to settle it. E.g. if the rule were "content warnings are encouraged but not required. It is not recommended to chastise someone for their choice of content warning or not. It is encouraged to inform your followers about content warnings and when to use them..." Not necessarily suggesting that rule, just a rule in that vein.

DELETED

@Gargron honestly it’s fantastic having different servers for different cultures and expectations, caters for everyone and keeps everyone in their own safe internet haven

Gamarús

@Gargron Thank you. People often think that their vision of the Fediverse IS the Fediverse.

And people who have been here a long time have a nasty habit of telling new people how to behave.

Schroeder

@Gargron

Eugene has been more than here. He helped build the place. Listen to him and stop the CW policing.

Schroeder

@Gargron
Sorry that autocorrect changed Eugen's name and I didn't notice.

Jashan Chittesh

@sandearl @Gargron Toot editing when? ;-)

Schroeder

@jashan @Gargron

I'm totally opposed to toot editing based on nothing Eugen said. Maybe.

wewe

@sandearl @jashan @Gargron sorry, but don't we have editing already? What am I missing?

EdenDestroyer

@sandearl @Gargron we can listen to him while not agreeing to his opinions. As much as we can appreciate his work, we still are a community as a whole filled with more people than just eugene. His authority isnt rock-hard, nor is the community’s. The opinions expressed in a dialogue and their legitimacy matters more than anything.

Schroeder

@edendestroyer @Gargron

You may have misunderstood. He said there's no consensus on CW use. You've been here about four days. I've been here about ten. You and I can have our separate opinions about CW use, but Eugen knows a hell of a lot more about the culture here than either of us. So I'm telling people don't tell others how they should use CWs based on the culture here. He just told us. I'm respecting expertise.

EdenDestroyer

@sandearl @Gargron this is my second account, I've been here since April

EdenDestroyer

@sandearl @Gargron youre not respecting expertise but authority, as I said, the study of the culture and its validity matters more than mere authority. I rest my case.

Thomas Fuchs 🕹️🔭

@Gargron I subscribe to the “don’t be a dick” school of thought on CWs

CautionWIP

@Gargron the password reset function seems to be broken for me. I’m not getting an email from the system.

User

@Gargron Will the Mastodon update be available on Google Play in the near future?

John of Arc

@Gargron I hate the porn on the Fediverse

Eugen Rochko

For my part, I've always seen them as something at the discretion of the author. As the reader, you have a plethora of tools to disengage from unwanted content on Mastodon—with even better filters coming in 4.0—and harassment is not one of them. People who are arriving now have as much right to be here and bring their own culture as the ones who came before them.

🎅❄️ Mike 🎄🎁

@Gargron thanks for this. i love them for spoilers and particularly triggering topics, but i am a fan of using hashtags for subjects so people can mute them. seeing CW's for every little thing just disrupts the flow (IMO).

Zate 🦘🇦🇺

@Gargron It is nice to hear that because I'm seeing a lot of pseudo gatekeeping along the lines of "all you new people, here's the rules, shoes off, only sit on the furniture that has plastic on it, we don't use the silverware and please wash the disposable plates when you are done" so to speak.

Skyler Reed

@zate @Gargron it's going to get wilder than anyone who's been here for a while can possibly imagine, I tell you. I was there when reddit started a bunch of things +for fun+ that are now entire institutions in +real life+, Imgur being one very good example. That kind of thing is probably happening now and so fast that if we blink we will miss it.

Mikhail Kats

@Gargron Thank you, this is a very nice sentiment

Minas Tirith City Planner

@Gargron Glad to hear this. Was starting to think I’d need to find somewhere else to go.

Vicks McQ ✨🌟

@gargron Thank you for saying this I was starting to feel guilty about being here like I was an unwanted house guest.

Rincewind🌹🇺🇦

@Gargron That last sentence is very important, thank you!

Tomas Bruno Choy 🐐🇨🇦

@Gargron still learning the #fediverse culture. Thank you for your honest and fearless thoughts. More power to you Sir!

Konomi Kitten

@Gargron thank you for writing this I'm of the same mind on this issue and I'm really hoping the 4.0 filtering will alleviate the hostility around content warnings.

Also sorry I have been a bit bothersome and complained so much in the past (and possibly recently), I really appreciate everything you've done to make Mastodon a success.

Thank you.

User

@Gargron Will the Mastodon update be available on Google Play in the near future?

Jay Arnold :verified:

@Gargron that said, I hope people leaving a toxic environment don’t bring toxic habits with them. I’m more interested in adapting to this more elegant, peaceful environment than trying to make it something else. It’s been a warm welcome here and I appreciate it.

Manong Dave

@Gargron Thank you for this. As one of the newcomers, and I can't speak for any but myself, but I believe most of us came here wanting to be respectful to the established community and we want to do our best and fit in. Thanks to you and everyone else for making us feel welcome.

Anthony Stevens 🇪🇺 🇯🇲 💙

@Gargron Thank you! I thought I was going mad. 🤷🏾‍♂️

I've seen nude CW posts for Only Fans & it's not bothered me as I just ignore them.

Posting current affairs & politics which affect our daily lives is standard across social media. Being told new users are not welcome for doing so, smacks of the very elitist division & prejudice, veteran Fediversers claim they left the bird site for to join Mastodon.

Thank you for clearing this up. I don't post nudity or violence, so won't be CW my Toots. 🙏🏾

@Gargron Thank you! I thought I was going mad. 🤷🏾‍♂️

I've seen nude CW posts for Only Fans & it's not bothered me as I just ignore them.

Posting current affairs & politics which affect our daily lives is standard across social media. Being told new users are not welcome for doing so, smacks of the very elitist division & prejudice, veteran Fediversers claim they left the bird site for to join Mastodon.

cq

@Gargron I just learned about the forum. Looks great! Wondering if I may ask, where does the term "Fediverse" comes from?

wewe

@cq @Gargron I imagine a combination of "federated" + "universe".

Enrique Barcelli

@Gargron Great comments.
I believe the beauty of the fediverse is that we can agree on the protocol and tools, and every group can decide their own moderation rules.
Having thousands of independent sites enables each community to self-regulate (as they probably know themselves better), the rest of us may choose to engage or not.
I know that at this point we are all trying to beef up our servers to accommodate the new comers, but in the long run many of them would run their own instances too.

TBQ

@Gargron Thank you for this update. There's a lot of strong voices in the CW debate so it's nice to hear from people in charge of servers to get their take.

*___,_°

@Gargron See your point! And I'd agree. There's a lot of reasons for #cw, but also some against them.
Like: the decision about trigger categories, #triggers can vary much individually.You don't want to leave people out. Or you don't want to hide critical information and at the end of the day everything is political...

So my solution was seeing #cw as a sort of formalized thing, a useful container for #hashtags and keywords.
But there's also a downside. The layout becomes too monotonous and 1/2

@Gargron See your point! And I'd agree. There's a lot of reasons for #cw, but also some against them.
Like: the decision about trigger categories, #triggers can vary much individually.You don't want to leave people out. Or you don't want to hide critical information and at the end of the day everything is political...

*___,_°

@Gargron always having to extra-click postings can get to your nerves - it makkes usage slightly unattractive.
For me the ideal solution would be, if #Toots were categorized automatically by hashtags or keywords and users can choose in their settings, if they want specific content to be wrapped, with the exception of violence, shocking pictures etc. For those I suppose general wrapping would better.

Leo Ji :verified:

@Gargron I'm really appreciative of how welcoming that you and so many others have been. Thanks for having us!

Jeanette

@kelvinvoskuijl @Gargron Ik ook. Ik vind dat sommige instances wel erg rigide dichttimmeren. Ik blijf nog even hier.

Kelvin Voskuijl

@Jeanette @Gargron dat is natuurlijk hun recht, maar ik snap je wel.

Jeanette

@kelvinvoskuijl @Gargron Ja. Social staat voor mij nog steeds voor openheid. Ik moet er wel aan wennen.

Edde Beket

@Jeanette @kelvinvoskuijl wat mag/kan er niet dan? Ben net verhuisd naar mastodon.nl, maar misschien eindig ik ergens op .coffee uiteindelijk. 🤔🤭

Kelvin Voskuijl

@edde @Jeanette er zijn instances waar ze minder van schelden houden bijv. (kan ik mij iets bij voorstellen). er zijn instances waar politiek een cw-verplichting heeft.

aditya

@Gargron I'm new here and I really appreciate the content warning culture and general non-harassment vibe. ofc CW shouldn't be used to silence or hide discussion of anti-Blackness, transphobia or other oppression, but I think it's a good norm to have.

leaving Twitter, I've been trying to be intentional about having an online experience not ruled by toxicity and feedback loops of anger and negativity. I appreciate how both Mastodon design and Mastodon culture encourage that

Gerard van Oel

@Gargron This is an attitude, a way of thinking, I have unlearnt over the last years, but will come back t me quickly. It is good for me.

Chloë Lum

@Gargron thank you for saying new users have a right to create the culture too. I’ve read a few things this evening that has made me feel really unwelcome as a new user. Nice to see a counter narrative.

GMONEY

@Gargron honestly I love mastodon just started a few days ago. Thanks for the work that you did.

Shawnster_P ☕️

@Gargron Is this where we post random issues we might be having with our accounts? 🙃

Minas Tirith City Planner

@Gargron is there a mobile app that lets you bypass CWs? The official one doesnt seem to have that option.

Satyam Singh

@Gargron I think that is the case but how should this work across instances. While some instances might benefit from not having CW on things like news, others would not want it on their timeline.

I was thinking if Mastodon could technically implement a CW setting instance to instance. Where one instance can choose to CW all posts from another instance.

Table4One

@Gargron Word. You a real one for posting this. Since I've arrived here I've seen a bunch of gatekeepers telling people what they can or cannot do, effectively standing against what I thought this place was supposed to be. ✌🏽

EdenDestroyer

@TB41 @Gargron its not about telling people what to do, but requesting them to be considerate of the existing culture and try and understand the importance and the reason behind its existence.

Jesse Cail

@Gargron In preparing to come over, the individual corners were portrayed by many as a weakness in the platform. Having spent just a very small amount of time here, I think it's one of its strengths. I'm only disappointed I didn't come over sooner.

[DATA EXPUNGED]
Paul - K5GLH 🇺🇸

@Gargron Is there a way to make your post only available to your corner without going out on to the federated feed? I mean, some topics are sensitive to certain groups and would not want to discuss them publicly. Just curious.

S Callisto Burwitz

@K5GLH @Gargron afaik that's what the "unlisted" setting is for. At the bottom of your text field is a stylized earth symbol. Click that and you have options about who sees your toot. (Next to it is the button to use Content Warnings/Notes, then the emoji of your instance)

Icicesttg

@Gargron sorry for the question; I am new here and was wondering if there was a way to merge different servers?? i.e if an individual belongs to different servers; is there a possibility for the user to merge the different servers he belongs to??

okanogen TheEnemyFromWithin

@Gargron I heard the phrase "content filter" and I think it is far superior as it isn't a loaded term.

Matt Bauman :julia:

@Gargron security This is precisely why the ability to add CWs to boosts would be so valuable!

Zyrix🤔

@Gargron
I wonder if it would make sense for #mastodon to add tags for the CWs. Then you could configure your feed to show or hide based on preference.

Sarah Perez 💙

@Gargron well now I’m confused because def just had a whole conversation today about how I should not posting tech news w/o a warning. Def don’t want to come in here & disrupt existing culture but also feel like ppl who don’t want “x” in their feed (where x isn’t a highly sensitive/ triggering topic, just an annoyance) would be better served by keyword filters. But that’s further down the road?

ianhillmedia

@Sarahp To flip it around: the people who argue there is a consensus may be incorrect. In a post last week he said he did not believe in requiring CWs for journalism, and that users could block others whose posts they did not want to see. That said, I'm approaching CWs as a writing challenge right now. Hypothesis: writing a good CW can lead to more engagement with your post. And I think that's how it is now. Keep trying different things to see what works.

Matt

@Sarahp @Gargron totally agree. I also want to be respectful, but political discussion and the exchange of ideas is part of our civic duty and we shouldn’t have to hide it. If you don’t like politics, don’t follow and find a way to filter it out. I love talking about politics. And I’m not going to put content warnings on every post. I think that’s just ridiculous.

Jonathan Greenberg

@Gargron thoughts on developing some community driven questionaire to help people choose the best instance?

Iris Thiele Isip Tan MD, MSc

@Gargron Thank you! New here and I'm still figuring out how to use it. I'm thinking, people might get underwhelmed by what I hide behind a CW. But seeing CWs here, I also know the power of curiosity and the pull provided by the label.

Tomas Bruno Choy 🐐🇨🇦

@Gargron I pay attention to the guidelines of my C.Im instance. Crystal clear explanation. Thank you.

sars2info

@Gargron I thought the science was clear that content warnings are not effective at their goal. I'm not sure why people are so fascinated with them?
osf.io/qav9m/

D.Day

@Gargron No big fan of the CW, though to be fair it’s really only a minor annoyance compared to the climate and inequality crisis. Appreciate your take on them. Let there be tools to to deal with them either way and everyone’s happy :-).

ExistentialBunny

@Gargron thank you for this. I know a lot of black community from Twitter felt alienated and aren’t coming back. That was really discouraging.

MoveFastAndFixThings

@Gargron this post needs to be pinned at the top of new feeds for a week after signing up. We are a universe, not a world.

FraterPhoenix

@Gargron That is the meaning of collective consciousness. The more comes together, the larger the diversity. It is also a sign of human growth and unity. Why it is important to learn from each other.

Jas Ac***

@Gargron most of the newcomers here like me don't like the recent developments on Twitter. Personally, I did not like the changes that could lead to the proliferation of fake news, hate, discrimination and bigotry. To all those who have been here for a long time, rest assured that most people who moved here just want a peaceful platform.

Clipper Chip :verified:

@Gargron Which is actually the best approach I can think of. Want mostly uncensored content? There's a server for you. If you don't, then there's another.

King

@Gargron Who sets the overall rules across servers ? There has to be a centralized party for that.

DELETED

@Gargron many thanks for posting this, it’s very encouraging, wise and much appreciated.

phatcontroller

@Gargron Some of the new people on Mastodon (not Mastodon social specifically) are experiencing racism. What measures exist to block racism and remove racists? Given that existing measures are proving insufficient what more can be done to overcome this problem?

billheywood

@Gargron it does seem odd to follow someone with a particular interest and then tell them to hide what they say about it behind a CW...

Simon Archer

@Gargron I guess this particular server (mastodon.social) is pretty laid back about them? There isn’t any defined convention regarding politics/topical subjects?

Helen Shaw (Athena Media )

@Gargron I guess the key thing is to respect the community 'rules' of the server you are on. Personally think CW tags clean up timelines and make it much easier to curate stories, engage and find the conversations you want to connect with. Not just about trigger warnings but giving that old fashioned sense of a headline allowing you to decide to read it.

Mike Bell

@Gargron I’m still new here but respect my server is primarily for one topic. Therefore I tend only to boost off topic posts that have CWs. Something for those advocating for reduced usage of them to consider?

Alikidman

@Gargron - I hope you get to read these comments. As a newbie I wouldn’t say the welcome from existing Mastodon users has been overwhelming positive. I get it; but we’re all new to this site at some point. If someone posts something interesting (and they don’t use a CW and maybe should have) it means I don’t reblog it. It might be a useful tool if we could add a CW to reblogs. Ps it’s a lovely site thank you 🙏 😍

🇪🇺 #AgainstLies #CONsFailed

@Gargron I think we should just trust #Mastodon residents. No point in getting precious about the communities, looking in on ourselves.
Let’s not worry about the bluebird.
I just want to see up to date news, considered views and thoughts that have the ability to change minds and real life.
No problem with dealing with loud crude voices. That is life. We are not an inward looking monastery.

WhatCan1Choose

@Gargron as a newbie... can I ask, is it possible to change servers/instances? I signed up to a paid one by accident. Ta

David Ogle

@Gargron On a completely different note, but based on the fact that you’ve been here a while, please could you help it’s a query: do you know if it’s normal/deliberate that I can’t see who people I am following are in turn following? Just get buffering when I’d like to get an idea of who else is on here who I’d like to follow…

AnarCom Network

@Gargron Ah, OK, that's useful info. Thanks. I'm trying to fit in without upsetting folks. Gathering insights as I go!

Rin (Rins2pworth Twitter)

@Gargron I just thought it was respect for others and doesn't harm anyone to add? why not start as you mean to go on not assuming that all people feel as I do or you do and being respectful of that 🤷‍♀️

DLTQ

@Gargron Very useful point, thank you! Regards from a 7 day old user.

Kelvin L

@Gargron thanks for the clarification. For newbies it’s quite unclear

Gaza

@Gargron thanks for info.
Will try an navigate

Stephen Porter

@Gargron the concern is will this degenerate like the various Chan groups, Reddit, TikTok, Telegram?!

ytekmen

@Gargron thanks for the insight! A newbie here learning the ropes :)

Joseph Tesfaye

@Gargron But I’ve seen lots of warnings and feel it’s been abused.

h from the website

@Gargron People are sensitive to stories about the "crazy content warning culture of masto" because they have bad experiences with Twitter social groups that do these things. To them, seeing that culture go from being borne up by a social group to being part of the platform (ie: your chosen instance has users that believe in it and moderators that enforce it) is worrying. Yes, they can choose instances, but those can be blocked by other instances!

Prof RBJ

@Gargron Surely can never hurt to apply it!!

Starry Starry Knight

@Gargron Just a hunch... peeps who don't CW also don't use turn signals...

lowresolution

@Gargron I got lots of warning after a few days I think that it’s an abuse, apart being unwelcoming. Very surprised.

Kenneth

@Gargron One must tend one's own garden. ~Voltaire

Tyler C

@Gargron if CWs are so important, why aren't they mandatory?

bjb :devuannew: :emacs:

@Gargron One rule of thumb could be: if you are on the fence about whether to use a content warning, check the mission/purpose of your instance. If the post matches the mission - no need for cw. If not, consider a cw.

Cassandra Parkinson

@Gargron
As a newcomer I'm mostly trying not to offend unintentionally - and not repeat some of the early blunders I made on Twitter. 😅

Scott Nicholls 💎

@Gargron as we all thought was the case in the first place 🙏🏼🙏🏼

Alexander Hay

@Gargron I've been polluting the fediverse with my presence since 2018, and this is the first time I've seen CWs being made such an issue. Partly, I think this is down to the old guard feeling a bit worried and trying to mark out its turf.

For my part, I use them on my own discretion, not whether @thingy@mammoth.trunk in Sacramento will tell me off if I don't.

If everyone is doing their best, and in good faith, and the vast majority of people here are, I personally see it as a non-issue.

Brendan MacWade

@Gargron Thank you. decentralized means decentralized. It's brilliant.

Adam Moore

@Gargron
Appreciate this, Eugen. Something that has confused me about the endless stream of posts telling newbies to conform to the norms of mastodon concerning content warnings, etc. is precisely that it cuts against the whole point of a decentralized network with different practices and views.

tibbi ✨

@Gargron Maybe change the name, or add one, for those of us who would like to use it just to make a long post shorter and let the reader decide to see it.

Michael :mastodon:

@Gargron The comments under this post are a great illustration of the need for a threading mechanism in Mastodon.

mdhmadrid

@Gargron trying to get my 2018 account back. Can you help

Erik

@Gargron sounds a bit more like life… or at least a civilized version

Rev. Kellyn Delgado

@Gargron My thoughts on this are, just take it easy man. Not all servers are going to have the same norms just like no one place has the same norms. Every user has the right to post what they want but users and admins don't have to see those if they don't want to. It's not a big deal. On the other hand, just don't be a dick about it. If you think you're going to be a dick by posting something, maybe put it behind a CW. Thanks Eugen for making this great software for everyone!

Aunt Eeepha⚙

@Gargron
This is why it seems to me that large businesses who had "branded" users on other platforms should consider creating/running their own instances and communicate to their employees that they should wait to migrate or move to the instance when it's created. They could set the standards on their instance. This could also alleviate concerns that some have as to whether they are following the "real" John Doe.

davidhknapp

@Gargron is anyone already doing interesting academic work on #twittermigration? Seems like it’s ripe for analysis.

Paul Rich🇮🇪🇬🇧🇪🇺

@Gargron do we refer to it as Mastodon or by the instance we're using? Or just by Fedaverse?

RagsMahone

@Gargron

"Different corners have different expectations and customs."

That's my brain that is.

#RagsMahone

Starshark

@Gargron It doesn't bother me personally. I just have fun with it and CW everything. Lars von Trier knew what he was talking about when he made The Five Obstructions.

I've seen a black activist complain about the system, and she has legitimate points from her perspective. But I have no idea how to sort that out.

Travis

@Gargron Dont disagree with this at all, but I would suggest that the client needs work to let users consume CWs in the way they want.

Ideally I'd be able to allowlist CWs per user/instance, instead of a binary flag.

Roh Ash

@Gargron hopefully this diversity can bring about meaningful dialogue without the interference from politicians and corrupt media

Amy Westervelt

@Gargron that's interesting and helpful to hear as a newcomer. I'm definitely seeing quite a few people wanting Mastodon to be a 1:1 replacement for Twitter in ways that seem unreasonable too!

Clayton Slaughter

@Gargron I like content warnings. It makes for an easier experience

Mark Britten

@Gargron I don't ever expect there to be consensus on anything anywhere on the Internet 😅

GoodyLovePunch

@Gargron ‘different corners have different customs’ and guess that will shift and flex and settle.

The Big Dipper

@Gargron can someone catch me up on everything I need to know about Mastadon? I don’t even know what Fedi means lol, I’m new here.

Miranda Whiting

@Gargron Thank you. Some of the discussion has felt very judgemental and offputting.

Gian

@Gargron oh wow, 2016?? How come I didn't hear about this til now?

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