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𝗖 𝗔 𝗧's posts Post Back to profile
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Jonathan D. Cope, Esq.

@ashtime @Radical_EgoCom @sule_becalm

You have the right idea, but you’re suggesting the wrong business model. To do what you are suggesting, you must use Common Capitalism. You can read about it at mastodon.social/@commonscapita

Worker coops are great for, but only help, worker/owners. The large majority of workers in worker coops are just employees. Worker coops are ad hoc organizations; they are created for a specific purpose. They don’t replicate and create new worker coops.

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3 Dec 2024 at 1:10 | Wall-to-wall | Open on mastodon.social
19 comments
Jonathan D. Cope, Esq.

@ashtime @sule_becalm

The current reach of worker cooperatives, ESOPs, and EOTs is limited. They have not scaled (and won't scale) to a level that could address the needs of the entire workforce. These models mainly address issues within individual companies rather than at a societal level. Systemic problems like widespread income inequality and environmental sustainability require broader solutions. (Copilot, parenthetical emphasis is mine.)

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3 Dec 2024 at 1:24 | Open on mastodon.social
Jonathan D. Cope, Esq.

@ashtime @sule_becalm

While worker cooperatives, ESOPs, and EOTs provide valuable benefits and contribute to worker well-being, they might not fully address the broader systemic issues. Commons Capitalism offers a more comprehensive and holistic approach, focusing on equitable wealth distribution, community investment, and sustainability. (Copilot)

#capitalism #economics #socialism

3/3

3 Dec 2024 at 1:33 | Open on mastodon.social
Şule Albayrakoğlu

@commonscapitalism @ashtime Labour coops do not have any vision/demand out of what capitalism dictates to themselves. Their reform demands cannot change existing mode of production which is called as capitalism. Abolishing capitalism is a interdisciplenary matter including physchology not only social phychology. By the way I did not suggest any business model. I just tried to explain historical roots of capitalism those depends upon primitive agricultural society. 1/2

3 Dec 2024 at 9:59 | Open on ieji.de
Şule Albayrakoğlu

@commonscapitalism @ashtime The era where we can observe the surplus value. Thank you very much for your reading recommendation. 2/2

3 Dec 2024 at 10:03 | Open on ieji.de
🍄ashtime🍄 replied to Şule

@sule_becalm @commonscapitalism #Capitalism is deeply rooted in history, but #history also shows systems can be dismantled&replaced. Worker-owned cooperatives and ESOPs may not scale alone,but combined with systemic change—like wealth redistribution,democratized production, and environmental prioritization—they would challenge capitalist frameworks. @Radical_EgoCom the #revolution you advocate is a valid path,ultimately probably the only realistic one-judging by history&present.

3 Dec 2024 at 20:31 | Open on mastodon.social
Jonathan D. Cope, Esq. replied to 🍄ashtime🍄

@ashtime @sule_becalm @Radical_EgoCom

While worker cooperatives, ESOPs, and EOTs offer significant benefits and have positive impacts, they may fall short in addressing all the comprehensive needs of societal worker well-being on a national scale. The limitations in their current reach, growth potential, and the systemic issues they can address make it challenging for them to be the sole solution.

#capitalism #economics #socialism

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4 Dec 2024 at 2:06 | Open on mastodon.social
Jonathan D. Cope, Esq. replied to Jonathan D. Cope, Esq.

@ashtime @sule_becalm

The aggregate number of members in all worker cooperatives in the United States is estimated to be around 10,000 workers according to fiftybyfifty.org/2022/02/lates and 14.7M workers in ESOPs according to nceo.org/articles/employee-own and the last number has stagnated at that amount for the last 8 reporting periods.

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4 Dec 2024 at 2:06 | Open on mastodon.social
Jonathan D. Cope, Esq. replied to Jonathan D. Cope, Esq.

@ashtime @sule_becalm

Why Commons Capitalism Remains Crucial:
Systemic Equity:

Broader Impact: Commons Capitalism aims to address income inequality and wealth distribution on a systemic level, reaching beyond individual companies.

Equitable Wealth Distribution: By treating profits as a common pool resource, it ensures that wealth is distributed more fairly across all stakeholders, not just employees of specific companies.

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4 Dec 2024 at 2:07 | Open on mastodon.social
Jonathan D. Cope, Esq. replied to Jonathan D. Cope, Esq.

@ashtime @sule_becalm

Conclusion:

While worker cooperatives, ESOPs, and EOTs provide valuable benefits and contribute to worker well-being, they might not fully address the broader systemic issues. Commons Capitalism offers a more comprehensive and holistic approach, focusing on equitable wealth distribution, community investment, and sustainability. (Copilot)

4/4

4 Dec 2024 at 2:07 | Open on mastodon.social
Şule Albayrakoğlu replied to Jonathan D. Cope, Esq.

@commonscapitalism @ashtime Due to my opinion both of you are still arguing within the context of capitalism. Your suggestions may make the world a better place for human beings and others. But they cannot abolish capitalism. You both do not consider Nation as a problem and defense industries those nations have (must be abolished when capitalism is abolished) . I wish both of you can reach some of your suggestions but these are not the way of abolishing capitalism

4 Dec 2024 at 12:01 | Open on ieji.de
🍄ashtime🍄 replied to Şule

@sule_becalm @commonscapitalism What’s your suggestion? I think that nation-states’ existence and military industry, human desire for war are 2 separate issues-both existed through different economic models in human history. Capitalism is rooted in #colonialism and #imperialism - not existence of nations or wars.

4 Dec 2024 at 13:08 | Open on mastodon.social
Şule Albayrakoğlu replied to 🍄ashtime🍄

@ashtime @commonscapitalism İ tried to say your question about abolishing capitalism is not realistic. That's all .

4 Dec 2024 at 13:29 | Open on ieji.de
Jonathan D. Cope, Esq. replied to Şule

@sule_becalm @ashtime

Pardon me if something I said suggested that capitalism can be abolished. It will never be abolished. Capitalism will always be the preferred economic vehicle for small closely held corporations and venture capitalists. Some corporations are too large to be converted to worker coops, ESOPs, EOTs, or CCEs. Additionally, capitalism is endless in breadth and width.

5 Dec 2024 at 1:52 | Open on mastodon.social
Şule Albayrakoğlu replied to Jonathan D. Cope, Esq.

@commonscapitalism @ashtime Sorry I gave this answer to @ashtime . By the way capitalism may be abolished under different conditions and in a very long time.

5 Dec 2024 at 7:57 | Open on ieji.de
Jonathan D. Cope, Esq. replied to Şule

@sule_becalm @ashtime

If it is abolished, it most likely would be the result of societal collapse caused by a failure of worker well-being. The question then is what would fill the economic and political void created by societal collapse, probably a society similar to western Europe's in the 6th century with the beginning of a new feudalistic order.

5 Dec 2024 at 8:11 | Open on mastodon.social
🍄ashtime🍄 replied to Jonathan D. Cope, Esq.

@commonscapitalism @sule_becalm Ok guys, you know that capitalism does not equal democracy and that we had different economic models in existence in the 20th century? How workers cooperatives work in #USA is jot the only model in the entire world. With the existence of #billionaires we already live in some kind of a #feudal system.

5 Dec 2024 at 10:01 | Open on mastodon.social
Şule Albayrakoğlu replied to 🍄ashtime🍄

@ashtime @commonscapitalism May be this can be called vulture capitalism. And we still don ot know the way of abolishing such a system out of capitalism dictates us. Maybe later in conjunction with changing energy/power resource, type of production , also means of prodyction, tecnology depending upon these changes social classes, social physchology, etc. not reforming in capitalist mode of production. By the way I am not against all these suggestions those cannot abolish capitalism.

5 Dec 2024 at 10:56 | Open on ieji.de
𝗖 𝗔 𝗧 replied to Şule

@sule_becalm

Do you even know what the hell capitalism is? Capitalism is, put simply, the private ownership of the means of production, with the addition with the profit motive and market competition. That can be abolished, even if nations and defense industries continue to exist.

9 Dec 2024 at 11:35 | Open on mastodon.social
Şule Albayrakoğlu replied to 𝗖 𝗔 𝗧

@Radical_EgoCom As an economist I really don't want to argue about this subject anymore which depends upon a great literature in my second language by means of social media. I wish you good luck implementing what you think.

9 Dec 2024 at 12:01 | Open on ieji.de
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