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Girls, if a boy says to you, "Your body, my choice." They've implicitly given you permission to kick them in the balls. Or as my husband said, "My knee, your nuts." In short, you are allowed to defend yourself from a rape threat, which is what that first statement is. 100 comments
 @JohnSullivan @realtegan unfortunately making the move from threat to violence makes the person doing the kicking at fault. Not morally, but otherwise - and it's generally not safe to be the one starting violence with these people. @noodlemaz @JohnSullivan @realtegan I don't see how someone who is claiming control of your body can complain about what it does to him. @noodlemaz @JohnSullivan @realtegan Yeah, the law protects men like that and not their victims.  @rupert @noodlemaz @JohnSullivan @realtegan I think their point is that they’re not willing to sacrifice brave women to the law for an unknown chance doing so would affect it. A better route is to use social pressures to reduce the expression of these threats, which is why they said it needs to be men talking to other men, as the men that make these threats are more cowed by men’s disapproval than women’s hypothetical violence. @locksmithprime @rupert @WhiteCatTamer @JohnSullivan @realtegan because claiming that men only learn from violence? It is not. Stop believing their lessons. Regrow the parts of yourself that patriarchy killed before you tell women to join you in leaving those parts of themselves to die in response to threats. That's not winning.  @locksmithprime @noodlemaz @rupert @JohnSullivan @realtegan We’re not asking for equal debate, we’re asking for social pressure by the people these men respect as people: other men. Please stop and think for a second about how this conversation of two people trying to guide you away from encouraging others to make very risky moves is taking up time and effort that could be directed towards the threats. @WhiteCatTamer @noodlemaz @rupert @JohnSullivan @realtegan I agree with all. Yet I say both things can be true and be done at the same time. One is sick, one works to improve the body's strength and resistance while at the same time one takes the medicine to eliminate the disease. @locksmithprime @rupert @WhiteCatTamer @JohnSullivan @realtegan when did turning into a retaliatory bully stop bullying? Only reworking society does that, & men (+ some women, but mainly men bc those assholes don't give a shit what women say to them abt their behaviour) have the power to do that. @locksmithprime @rupert @WhiteCatTamer @JohnSullivan @realtegan nobody here is asking for a debate with rapists and wannabe rapists. @noodlemaz @rupert @WhiteCatTamer @JohnSullivan @realtegan Perhaps none of us is listening. @locksmithprime @noodlemaz @rupert @JohnSullivan @realtegan DO words work with you? Look back at this conversation. @WhiteCatTamer @noodlemaz @rupert @JohnSullivan @realtegan We are using words here, are we not? Are we not discussing, sharing views? Is it perhaps heated? Yes, and that is fine. I believe this is still a non violent conversation. @noodlemaz @rupert @WhiteCatTamer @JohnSullivan @realtegan Perhaps try the pragmatic way. The current one is not working. @locksmithprime @noodlemaz @rupert @JohnSullivan @realtegan Asking men to be more confrontational with their peers is the pragmatic way. Asking women to risk retaliatory violence and felonies is not. It can be as simple as shaking your head in disgust and walking away from the speaker. It can be as involved as having months long arguments with friends going down the rabbit hole. But it is far safer for all. @WhiteCatTamer @noodlemaz @rupert @JohnSullivan @realtegan Yes. But what if that is not enough? Should we allow, then, violence against women because we refused to show them how to defend themselves? @locksmithprime @WhiteCatTamer @rupert @JohnSullivan @realtegan no and that wasn't what I was saying. I don't think this is productive so I bid you a good night @locksmithprime @noodlemaz @rupert @JohnSullivan @realtegan Why do you believe a woman not responding to a verbal threat with physical violence is the same as failing to teach women how to defend themselves? Every single martial arts teacher I’ve trained under has stressed the point that if you can get away without fighting, that is the best outcome. I’m not advocating for pacifism. @WhiteCatTamer @noodlemaz @rupert @JohnSullivan @realtegan No no. Not a verbal threat. I am talking about physical violence. One can use words to defend against words. @noodlemaz @locksmithprime @rupert @WhiteCatTamer @JohnSullivan @realtegan I would like to add to this that, while I enjoy messages of girl power etc, in reality there are very very few men I could take in a fight Of course there are women who are skilled in martial arts or otherwise good at fighting, but that is not most women. And certainly not me. For me, specifically, if violence ensues, whoever starts it, I will be worse off. @WhiteCatTamer @rupert @noodlemaz @JohnSullivan @realtegan @noodlemaz @JohnSullivan @realtegan @willow1958 @JohnSullivan @realtegan how do you hold someone accountable who doesn't see you as a human being, who doesn't believe you have any authority? I totally agree women can eg leave/divorce terrible men (when they have the means and safety to do so). Women with sons can help to teach them values, respect, guide them away from hate. But the existing misogynists? They are not women's responsibility. In a misogynistic, patriarchal society, it's men who have most power to change men. @noodlemaz @JohnSullivan @realtegan @noodlemaz @JohnSullivan @realtegan @noodlemaz @JohnSullivan @realtegan @willow1958 @JohnSullivan @realtegan I am fine, though I thank you for the kind words. I'm watching my friends and a whole bunch of strangers suffer from afar and like you I want them to be safe. @noodlemaz @JohnSullivan @realtegan   @realtegan Dude-shaped folks: the above applies to you. If you overhear this exchange, you are also permitted and expected to step the FUCK up.   @realtegan Probably been done to death this week, but the canonical response from one lady was "Your body, my freezer". "I'm Badger AF and I approve of this message." I'd almost approve of a t-shirt, but it's better to let this response be a surprise after the fact.  @realtegan girls, if a boy says "your body, my choice" you get to chop off their head if you so choose. @realtegan Exactly the image that sprang into my mind on a solo hike yesterday (“Your balls, my boot”). @glitzersachen Less offensive to if it falls into the wrong hands, but readily understood by recipient. Great. 💯 !! there's also that ancient Biblical wisdom: I really didn't expect this to take off. I generally do not condone violence. However, there are exceptions. If someone is threatening rape with that statement and makes any move that indicates they might follow-through, people need to understand THEY SHOULD FIGHT BACK. I was taught as a child to just endure. That's fucked up. Fight back any way you can: leave the room, tell a reasonable authority figure, or... beat the living snot out of the scumbag. Stop teaching girls to be submissive.  @realtegan We all need to get a lot more comfortable condoning violence when it's in defense of self or others. Violence has no moral dimension of its own -- it is the relationship between the one doing the violence and the one targeted that creates the morality of the situation. @realtegan Lately, the number of situations in which I condone violence has grown significantly. @realtegan @clive I feel exactly this way every time I see someone declaring themselves a Nazi. You're telling me your whole identity is violence against people like me. Me punching you in your fucking face is just me continuing the conversation you started.  @realtegan in my completely uneducated opinion, this falls under the “fighting words” exception and I’ll hear no arguments to the contrary @Jackiemauro If someone threatens you with violence, all bets are off. Not every woman can fight back. Not every girl will want to. Pick your battles, but stop telling victims, "oh, you should just take it. Sticks and stones and all that." Fuck that attitude. They want to RAPE. They are threatening you. You are allowed to fight back by whatever means necessary. Which includes physical violence *if you are up to it*. @realtegan also, they need to know that saying this will get them kicked in the nuts, at least sometimes. And that lots of people will be on the side of the person kicking. And I'm going to teach mine, if the school tries to punish you, state that you want to make a police report, and you want your parents called. And then do it. @realtegan  @realtegan 👆🏻 👆🏻 👆🏻 so help me if a man says that anywhere near me, I'm likely to need bail money. This shit is NOT okay. @robdaemon Worth it. @realtegan same, feral GenX'er here but raised by a late boomer feminist. This shit is not happening on my watch.  @realtegan I can’t believe boys and men are saying this to girls and women. I mean I fully believe it, I’m just dumbfounded because I would never in my life say something so callous to someone like that.  @realtegan When kicking them in the balls, I wonder if it would be better to just repeat it back at them to illustrate how psychopathic of a statement that is. @realtegan  Yes! Hey boys…say that and get ‘my knee, your nuts’..great come-back. Also ‘Miss Congeniality will teach you how to ‘sing’! @socprof Weapons, even pepper spray, need a little training to do properly. Same with kicking a guy where it hurts. Guys have an instinct to protect that body part, so you really are unlikely to connect. Better to make the threat (my boot, your balls), then if he actually attacks, go for his eyes or throat. @realtegan I rarely agree with violence, but self defense like this, I think, is an obvious situation. The solar plexus is also a good target… you have options. Might want to go for both… 😇 Yeah, nah. First's an implied threat, second's a physical assault. Annoyed this crap made it into my feed.  @realtegan I don't usually say "bollocks" but "your bollocks, my boots" just satisfies me for matching cadence.  Your body my choice is some real dark fascist misogyny. I was taught to be submissive too. The first time I had sex I was raped. I said no, and the boy wouldn’t stop. A month later when school started again all the boys clapped when they saw me. I was shamed for being raped. A boy says something like that to any young woman, you punch back and you hit hard. @FranceskaMann I'm angry for your past. I'm angry at the boy who did that, and the boys who supported it. I'm enraged by it all, and wish I could go back in time and prevent it. I want to see young women fight back and not doubt themselves. Shame needs to change places. When that happened to me, I didn’t speak out because no one had my back. This is a misogynist patriarchy. And if a boy or a man tells you what they’re going to do to you, believe them. The racism and sexism are not benign. They are not harmless. @realtegan I'm not a violent person, so I'll help by pinning the incel's arms down while you kick his nards into the next county. @realtegan Every girls needs to learn how to use a strap on. Let the incels learn how the courts work.  @realtegan My print shop won't let me put this directly on a baseball bat, so I had to make a sticker... https://www.etsy.com/dk-en/listing/1824266625/your-kneecaps-my-choice-sticker-black  @realtegan Also women, if you don't feel safe kneeing that person in the groin, let me know. I'm not super busy. (What I'm really saying is guys, if you see or hear another guy say "Your body, my choice", stand up and intervene, and let that that piece o' crap know there are consequences.) @realtegan also, we have phones with cameras and audio recording, use it! Pretend you didn't hear them and dare them to repeat it. If they have the balls (pre-knee of course) to say it capture it. Then remember we have tort law that allows you to sue their sorry ass |
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@realtegan This is the kind of parental talk that should be taught schools.