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Rémi Verschelde

Looking at the replies on mastodon.gamedev.place/@godote

... What's up with the FUD spreading on Mastodon?

The Godot editor is available as direct download, and packaged on Steam, EGS, Google Play, and now Horizon Store as a VR enabled app.
All open source and free, with no strings attached, but folks on Masto talk as if Godot sold its soul to the devil.

Mastodon is a platform that claimed to be designed to reduce toxic aspects of social media, but in my experience it's the most antagonistic I'm on.

22 Sep 2024 at 8:43 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
48 comments
Josh Simmons

@akien people don't read anything, so the fact that the post says they "partnered with meta" just means people will rant about meta in the replies, regardless of anything else. mastodon isn't really different (except maybe worse on this specific kind of issue due to demographics) from any other social media in that respect.

22 Sep 2024 at 8:46 | Open on mastodon.social
Rémi Verschelde
Rémi Verschelde

@dotstdy Also the post doesn't say "partnered with Meta", but "a collaborative effort with Meta".

That means Meta helped make this happen (following the open source development policies of the project like any user/company would), and didn't do this alone in a vacuum but with involvement from other Godot contributors.

22 Sep 2024 at 8:53 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Neil Henning

@akien @dotstdy I don’t agree with the sentiment - but some people regard any interaction with anyone from Meta as a dance with the devil.

22 Sep 2024 at 8:54 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Josh Simmons

@akien Right, but you'd have to read the post to actually know what that means. And most of the angry posters don't have any idea what collaboration means in this context (to be honest, i had to read the article to see what it actually meant as well, but i bet none of the toxic replies clicked through xd).

22 Sep 2024 at 8:58 | Open on mastodon.social
Josh Simmons

@akien But you're absolutely right that the weird foss bros are strong on this platform. I think in general the mansplaining factor here is also extremely high.

22 Sep 2024 at 9:00 | Open on mastodon.social
Josh Simmons

@akien Yeah, I feel like popular mastodon posts look a bit like the phoronix forums at times, especially with things that anger the foss nerds. Which is pretty disappointing.

22 Sep 2024 at 8:56 | Open on mastodon.social
Rémi Verschelde

Honestly, we do care about sharing our announcements to all users, and especially on a platform that's open source and user owned like Mastodon.

But we're seriously considering doing so with comments disabled in the future...

This is just one example but the amount of FOSS absolutists who give us shit for e.g. being hosted on GitHub is just not worth our time.

I have 15 years of FOSS development experience, I've seen it all. Absolutists just make FOSS seem toxic to pragmatic people.

22 Sep 2024 at 8:47 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Rexx Deane 🏳️‍🌈

@akien I for one appreciate the availability of Godot on as many platforms as possible. It guarantees accessibility and diversity in the ecosystem, which is the essence of open source. The fact that Godot has big support from manufacturers is helpful and in no way means you're selling your soul to them.
I started using Godot to develop for the quest 2 because it was the easiest and least bloated way to do so, none of which would have been possible without support from meta.

22 Sep 2024 at 9:02 | Open on mastodon.online
Rexx Deane 🏳️‍🌈

@akien I'm only on Mastodon, so if disabling replies is what it takes to keep you putting announcements on here, by all means do so.

22 Sep 2024 at 9:03 | Open on mastodon.online
Emi

@rexxdeane @akien That's what we discussed actually. We don't want to abandon the platform, but the users are by far the more hostile to anything we post.

22 Sep 2024 at 11:15 | Open on mastodon.social
Ciro Continisio

@akien wow. I'm also surprised at the hate comments, indeed.
With Meta being such a central platform, you'd expect users of the engine to be happy, even if they're not making stuff for VR themselves...

22 Sep 2024 at 9:06 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Alanna

@akien I appreciated seeing the announcement. It's a pity it doesn't work on Quest 2. I'm no Meta fan, but just because you host something on their App Store doesn't mean you agree with what they do. It's better Godot is available for everyone in as many places as possible. People are, as usual, just looking for a fight for no reason, please keep up the good work.

22 Sep 2024 at 9:09 | Open on mastodon.ie
Rémi Verschelde

@kelpana Thanks! Yeah I wish it was available also on earlier headsets, I have a Quest 1 myself and it's now a brick after just a few years.

My understanding is that it relies on OS features that are pretty cutting edge and not available in earlier devices.

But maybe with time the contributors will find an alternative way to make some of it work on Quest 2. At least a few years back the "normal" flat Android editor "worked" when sideloaded on Quest 1 IIRC, but was mostly a gimmick.

22 Sep 2024 at 9:18 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Moss

@akien announcements only is fine for me

22 Sep 2024 at 9:10 | Open on cloudisland.nz
Gallen 🔜 EF

@akien
Me: I am using an orchestral library recorded by professionals, in a custom built recording studio, with top musicians from all over Europe (vienna symphonic library for the curious)

Them: why u not using this 2mb sound font, it's open source! Don't need anything more.

Me: facepalms

XD

22 Sep 2024 at 9:17 | Open on meow.social
Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse

@akien I'm curious: Why does people being dicks in the comments cost you time? It's not like you *have* to respond to them, ignoring, muting, or blocking are options. (That said: If Godot had announced a collab with the German AfD you'd *expect* some backlash, even if that had no impact on its liberty status; so *I'm* surprised the reaction to a collab with Facebook/Threads/Meta surprised you)

22 Sep 2024 at 9:39 | Open on ioc.exchange
Sonikku

@lpwaterhouse @akien
The problem now with dicks in comments is that they are often capable of triggering cancel culture. In other words, if they get left unchecked they will get you canceled.

22 Sep 2024 at 10:34 | Open on oldbytes.space
Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse

@Sonic2k @akien Eh, who cares? If what you did wasn't shitty it'll pass, and if it was, well...

22 Sep 2024 at 10:36 | Open on ioc.exchange
Owl New Worlds 🔢 making Nokoma

@akien I don't understand these comments 🤨

22 Sep 2024 at 10:48 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
njamster :godot:

@akien I'm afraid I have bad news for you: You CAN'T disable replies on Mastodon! 😅 (And yes, that sucks!) Also, I'm sorry your Mastodon experience has been so negative. I guess many around here were driven to this place by corporate greed, so (imho) it's understandable they are very sensitive when it comes to *any* collabs in that space. Which doesn't excuse the way some of those concerns are voiced, of course. Again: I'm sorry. I appreciate you (and the project) being around here!

22 Sep 2024 at 10:49 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Emi
Rie

@emi_cpl @njamster @akien Disabling comments is a sorely needed feature - in the meantime you can at least mute a thread (stops showing you notifications).
Sorry you're having such a bad experience here :/ It seems like most people who feel very negatively about Meta flock to the fediverse. I don't want to touch their products myself either, but you don't deserve any flack over that - the XR port is a very cool achievement and lets more people enjoy gamedev!

22 Sep 2024 at 11:38 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Feyter

@akien very sad to see people behaving like this 😕

I get your dissatisfaction there, but I want you too remember that just the companies name makes some people emotional and emotion are a big trigger.

So I'm still on the believe that this is just a very loud minority. I'm sure most of the game dev people here are appreciating the work you're doing there. At least I do 🙂

22 Sep 2024 at 11:28 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Zeh Fernando

@akien I was also a bit surprised, not then not really.

All of those seem to be kids who at most "dabble" with Godot. People who make being anti-something their identity. Of course a partnership with a big tech company will give them reply boners.

They're just finding their identity, and their voice, and are doing so by flexing righteousness. They'll grow, I know; I also used to refer to Microsoft as "M$".

22 Sep 2024 at 11:57 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
/sbin/sam

@akien The knee-jerk, absolutist, scolding of Mastodon gets pretty exhausting

22 Sep 2024 at 13:32 | Open on mastodon.online
Jeremy Soller 🦀

@akien Godot is one of the greatest open source projects in history, and I am not exaggerating. Ignore the haters!

22 Sep 2024 at 14:17 | Open on fosstodon.org
Fauzruk

@akien Those that are complaining about this are probably not even FOSS contributors.

This is like complaining to the person that just made you a gift that you don't really like. It is just rude.

22 Sep 2024 at 14:51 | Open on mastodon.social
jjlinux | X unverified 😅

@akien that's what happens when people can't separate suggesting from elitism. You guys are the devs, you choose where you host your stuff. Keep up the effort, we all need you in our lives or we loose any anchor to sanity and ownership.

22 Sep 2024 at 15:07 | Open on mastodon.social
Victoria🌿💐🌳

@akien > but in my experience it's the most antagonistic I'm on.

I blame this on lack of normies. Everyone is just undergoing flanderisation here.

22 Sep 2024 at 9:40 | Open on mstdn.party
Yo Soy Freeman

@akien

I was going to say i can understand the push back from some folks, but after reading the comments those are not even constructed opinions, just borderline personal attacks and insults. I'm sorry you have to deal with that.

I think this time is not so much about FOSS purism as is literal fear to META. I believe there is a valid and interesting discussion about big open source projects and their relations with companies, but this is not the way to have it.

22 Sep 2024 at 9:46 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Yo Soy Freeman

@akien

The work done is objectively great and it shows all the hard work put to make it possible. I remember the Github discussions abut this long time ago and i know is been a challenge. You can be very proud of yourselves!

22 Sep 2024 at 9:49 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Disco Cat

@YoSoyFreeman @akien oh I just saw your toot. I think you are correct. Maybe this time, anti-Meta sentiment mixed with the usual foss elitism...

22 Sep 2024 at 10:23 | Open on eldritch.cafe
xananax

@cmdrDiscoCat @YoSoyFreeman @akien I like Mastodon, but no, Godot's Masto audience is consistently highly opinionated, holier-than-thou pricks. It's a super toxic environment. I've also heard the same echos from other OSS projects. It seems that the high concentration of anti-establishment people here also favors higher concentration than usual of tankies and other undiscerning leftishists

22 Sep 2024 at 15:34 | Open on poto.cafe
R0B0 G0D

@akien@mastodon.gamedev.place

So I'm not sure what in that thread can be considered FUD. No-one's spreading lies or untruths about Godot. but yes, there is a lot of negativity.

Mastodon has problems, serious hen-pecking HOA problems when someone dares to contravene it's ultra-leftist moral center but given what's happened to software in the last couple of years, companies Enshittifying everywhere you look, I can kind of see where they're coming from. A little.

Unity's Enshittification hit some folks hard, so when they see go-to saviour Godot "collaborating" with Meta, who are seen as an actual devil in many corners of the Fediverse, then comments like the ones on that thread aren't exactly justified -I'm not condoning them- but you can understand what's driving them. Meta has enabled actual Genocide, as well as meddled in the politics of countries around the globe via the unchecked dissemination of Misinformation on an industrial scale. These are not small concerns. In that light, anyone cheerfully announcing they've been working with them should rightly be questioned at the very least.

@akien@mastodon.gamedev.place

So I'm not sure what in that thread can be considered FUD. No-one's spreading lies or untruths about Godot. but yes, there is a lot of negativity.

Mastodon has problems, serious hen-pecking HOA problems when someone dares to contravene it's ultra-leftist moral center but...

22 Sep 2024 at 9:58 | Open on mecha.garden
Tab :godot: :git: :linux:

@akien I don't approve of being antagonist but I can relate as I came to Godot/Mastodon for software freedom values. To some Godot sharply contrasts with Meta for incompatible, important values.

Apologizes if this reply is unhelpful or unwanted, thanks for your work on Godot.

22 Sep 2024 at 10:07 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Julien Barnoin

@akien I think you just have to think about your wording more carefully.

I could have predicted a bad reaction from that statement, reading the first few words about "collaborating" with Meta gave me very bad vibes initially, maybe because it implies help went in both directions. While if you said that Meta "contributed" work it would probably have been fine.

What you have here is not antagonism, it's the absence of yes-men. If you want real replies and not just PR cheering, this is good.

22 Sep 2024 at 10:16 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Disco Cat

@akien my one guess : foss elitists that hate any presence of open source projects on proprietary platforms. There is a good number of them here.

22 Sep 2024 at 10:18 | Open on eldritch.cafe
Bojidar Marinov

@akien Do note that Mastodon is also the platform where individual admins were proactively defederating from Meta's Threads not too long ago in fear of embrace-extend-extinguish -- which might explain some of the anti-Meta sentiment.
Granted, the rest of the FUD is still there, and your points do apply.. 😅😅

22 Sep 2024 at 10:26 | Open on mastodon.social
John Wyatt 🐧

@akien

From the comments:

> why would anyone want this?

Why would anyone want to access a game creation tool on the largest PC gaming platform on the planet?

Urgh.

In your experience do any of them even contribute back to the project? Code, documentation, or money?

22 Sep 2024 at 10:39 | Open on mastodon.social
unexpectedteapot

@akien
Mastodon is not a platform.

You took a few expected disappointed replies as a representation for many more. I am pretty sure there are corporate (including Facebook's own Threads) instances that will praise the post. Other people already have.

It is not toxic to be disappointed or critical of an action.

People join smaller decentralised networks to escape Facebook. They pay the price of the network effects. If they are disappointed by software contributing to one of the locks people face in the networks they escaped, it is not toxic nor is it even an unreasonable position.

Having a presence on proprietary, locked-down platforms contributes to the current status quo of people being stuck inside them. It is not toxic to point that out. In fact, I think it is toxic to hand wave away legitimate concerns about contributing to predatory platforms that always carry the same pattern of embracing as many people into their networks as possible, then locking them in.

@akien
Mastodon is not a platform.

You took a few expected disappointed replies as a representation for many more. I am pretty sure there are corporate (including Facebook's own Threads) instances that will praise the post. Other people already have.

It is not toxic to be disappointed or critical of an action.

22 Sep 2024 at 10:40 | Open on social.linux.pizza
Terry Cavanagh
LinuxUserGD

@akien I think most of the replies are fine.
Some posts can't be reported because the users run their own instance but every reply has the same visibility.

Also some comments at least seem to be constructive:
mastodon.catgirl.cloud/@smorty

22 Sep 2024 at 11:48 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
Leandro (Cerberus1746)

@akien
And also people don't know very well how things work inside a big company.

The people that makes the VR headset has absolutely nothing to do with the social media part of the company.

22 Sep 2024 at 13:30 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
ThomasToSpace

@akien I've had this experience a lot. Users just get triggered by some words (in this case 'Meta') and the hate barges in. It's really disappointing.

22 Sep 2024 at 14:23 | Open on phpc.social
Ertain

@akien You have a point there. My apologies for jumping to conclusions. 😔

22 Sep 2024 at 14:47 | Open on mast.linuxgamecast.com
Martin Owens :inkscape:

@akien

I'm not too surprised. Free software has some seriously dumb whataboutism. I might have shuttered all my github repos and pushed Inkscape to gitlab, but why even have the energy to make such an issue about any other project. There so much more important work to do.

Nowadays, my ears are available for purchase. Reasonable rates. Trolls not welcome. 😉

22 Sep 2024 at 14:52 | Open on floss.social
Gramps Garcia

@akien People being shitheads on social media? Surely not! That is pretty lame about the response; my experiences on Mastodon have been way better than any other platform but I barely use them.

And yeah, despite most things being text on the internet... most people do not read or bother understanding anything.

22 Sep 2024 at 15:34 | Open on mastodon.gamedev.place
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