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Organic Maps

Last night Organic Maps was removed from the Play Store without any warnings or additional details due to "not meeting the requirements for the Family Program". Compared to Google Maps and other maps apps rated for 3+ age, there are no ads or in-app purchases, and no user information is collected in Organic Maps. We have asked for an appeal.

As a temporary workaround you can install the upcoming Google Play update from this link: cdn.organicmaps.app/apk/Organi

This APK should work with Android Auto.

146 comments
What's a fun name?

@organicmaps I'm really interested in reading their response - assuming they'll provide one and you can publish.

But, Google being Google and since they have stepped up their game in the ad (..and cloud) business by pushing forward with their AI features (story for another day) maybe they're after this 1 mil (at least) of your user-base.

ignis 😈

@hellenicsun @organicmaps "oops, sometimes this happens" immediately followed by an e-mail to rate their customer support experience

What's a fun name?

@petko @organicmaps totally possible. Situations like these, justify why I prefer to use a DeGoogled device and get my apps via @fdroidorg and - in the case of OrganicMaps - via Obtainium.

Jakob Bak

@organicmaps your post starts with “That night”. Was it “last night”?

Paul Schn

@jakobbak @organicmaps No they probably meant next night you absolute genius :thonking:

Rihards Olups

@paul_cS @jakobbak @organicmaps
No need for that here, we leave such behaviour for xitter :)

Paul Schn

@richlv @jakobbak @organicmaps im sorry, i just feel very annoyed by people that think pointing out other peoples mistakes publicly is a community service. People struggle with communicating and if you want to help send a direct message.

Rihards Olups

@paul_cS @jakobbak @organicmaps
Oh, I perceive it quite the other way - that people read announcements (not just blindly fav/boost them), and are helpful enough to share improvements.

Public/private - yes, in some cases a private msg can be more appropriate, but in most cases I'd prefer a public one.
It allows the original poster to fix the problem and reply with a nice message (better impression :) ).
And it also allows others to see it, avoiding possibly dozens of redundant private messages.

Rihards Olups

@paul_cS @jakobbak @organicmaps
And the next person reading the fixed message won't see that mistake, leaving a better impression.

Benefits all around from helpful communication :)

Paul Schn

@mdione @organicmaps Yes, thank you for asking the relevant questions! How should we focus on the important issues if we can't spell them correctly??!/s

Rihards Olups

@paul_cS @mdione @organicmaps
...and even less need for repeated behaviour like that - let's leave it for xitter, and for good :)

Paul Schn

@richlv @mdione @organicmaps same thing as i said in the other comment, respect goes both ways :)

soc

@richlv @paul_cS @mdione @organicmaps Maybe you should leave for Twitter, if you can't stop this behavior.

PotatoesFall

@organicmaps

Congratulations! Organic Maps has become so successful that Google is scared. This is a Milestone!!

rockpick

@potatoes_fall @organicmaps Yeah right. They see you as a threat to their business model. That means, that even Google acknowledges that you're doing a good job :-)

Scimmia di Mare :unverified:

@potatoes_fall @organicmaps

🏅 "Threat for Google" achievement unlocked! 🔓

nickelson

@organicmaps wtf? How can be a map app "inappropriate for children"? 🙃

Rihards Olups

@nickelson @organicmaps
It could have inappropriate ads or other detail - technically it is a possibility,

nickelson

@richlv @organicmaps There are no ads in Organic Maps, so that's not the case. The one thing could be if OSM is not "censoring" sexshop locations (as someone mentioned in the comments below) or some other "adult" places perhaps... Which is effing ridiculous 🤡

eq :tryzub_white:

@organicmaps I literally uninstalled google maps yesterday :neofox_shy:

Flippin' eck, Tucker!

@organicmaps In the meantime I can see your app is still available on F-Droid. Which privacy-conscious Android users should always prefer over the Google Play Store whenever possible. #FDroid #Google #OrganicMaps @fdroidorg

mxk

@losttourist @organicmaps @fdroidorg the F-Droid version is lacking play location services integration though, making positioning slower and more battery intensive.
(Just to put that out there, that switching to the F-Droid version might not be in everyone's interest)

Organic Maps

@mxk @losttourist @fdroidorg you can install version from GitHub using Obtainium, it has location services.

Atemu

@organicmaps @mxk @losttourist @fdroidorg

You could also look into using #microg's location client library. It's a FOSS re-implementation of Google's proprietary client lib that works with the official GMS.

Depending on this library would be permissible on F-droid as it's FOSS.

The app would be marked with the unfree net anti-feature of course. I don't know whether disabling the feature by default could remedy that, perhaps @rugk or @IzzyOnDroid are more knowledgable here.

aerique

@mxk @losttourist @organicmaps @fdroidorg But at least it works on degoogled phones and Sailfish OS.

ffffennek

@pbb Suggesting reasons that might justify what Google did, is not helpful for OM. Might help a Google employee coming up with an excuse, though.

Peter

@fennek Only if your assumption is that Google's decision was unjustified.

Bastian

@organicmaps I had to make my app for 12+ year olds, because I have a cartoon picture of a bomb in mine (similar to those in Mario Kart), without even an exploding animation or so (doesn't really matter because it's for a family board game and the parents or so can just install it but still)...
Google wouldn't approve my wear OS app because the description only mentions "companion app for smartwatches" and not "Wear OS"...
Now google refuses to accept a Wear OS update because I didn't upload screenshots (for the handful of people who actually would wanna use it on a watch - I just made it for watches to get some dev skills)...
Google is really stupidly strict and they just refuse to cooperate often.

@organicmaps I had to make my app for 12+ year olds, because I have a cartoon picture of a bomb in mine (similar to those in Mario Kart), without even an exploding animation or so (doesn't really matter because it's for a family board game and the parents or so can just install it but still)...
Google wouldn't approve my wear OS app because the description only mentions "companion app for smartwatches" and not "Wear OS"...
Now google refuses to accept a Wear OS update because I didn't upload screenshots...

david_chisnall

@organicmaps At this point, I am increasingly convinced that someone in the Google senior leadership team is actively trying to lose antitrust lawsuits.

rockpick

@organicmaps Maybe they can't fathom that you can provide a service without collecting data and aggressive ad targeting...

LionelB

@organicmaps

You are not rapacious capitalists. So you are out.

Antonio J. Delgado

@organicmaps so, according to Google, you can't advice kids on sex. So no sex education until you are 18?!?!?!?! Spanish Inquisition would approve this

Tor Iver Wilhelmsen

@organicmaps if you show no ads you are doing the Google wrong. The A in Android stands for ÂŤadsÂť

DELETED

@partizan
Organic Maps розроблено деякими з оригінальних творців MAPS.ME
+
З листопада 2014 року Maps.me належить Mail.ru
(c) wiki

Bart Nijbakker

@organicmaps
This is insane! Wonder about their reply too.

I'd like to point out, that this also means Google is effectively stopping us from using OM with Android Auto. In a previous thread (mastodon.social/@bnijbakker/11), it was pointed out that only apps from the Play Store, signed by Google, are allowed to be used with AA. This means we're now unable to receive updates for OM while continuing to be able to use AA.

Great to see Google's monopoly still thriving! (not)

@organicmaps
This is insane! Wonder about their reply too.

I'd like to point out, that this also means Google is effectively stopping us from using OM with Android Auto. In a previous thread (mastodon.social/@bnijbakker/11), it was pointed out that only apps from the Play Store, signed by Google, are allowed to be used with AA. This means we're now unable to receive updates for OM while continuing to be able to use AA.

Organic Maps

@bnijbakker there is a link to the google play signed apk in the post you can install manually: cdn.organicmaps.app/apk/Organi

Paul Campbell

@organicmaps @bnijbakker Can we get a link to a page to the APK that isn't on Reddit. Can't see the post without installing their app.

Bart Nijbakker

@paul @organicmaps Good point, I can't see it anymore either. Reddit isn't getting better lately, seems like they're joining Google in the age-inappropriate blame game.

Perfect demonstration of why I'm so happy we have Organic Maps and others like it, who respect us and are only getting better it seems!

Edit: the link in the Reddit post is just the Google Play store link.
The APK file is here (OM CDN link from their post earlier in this thread) cdn.organicmaps.app/apk/Organi

@paul @organicmaps Good point, I can't see it anymore either. Reddit isn't getting better lately, seems like they're joining Google in the age-inappropriate blame game.

Perfect demonstration of why I'm so happy we have Organic Maps and others like it, who respect us and are only getting better it seems!

Григорий Клюшников

Bart, this whole Reddit thing doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me. In what world is it appropriate to show "unreviewed content" in an app that is subject to stupid whims of mobile app stores but somehow not appropriate to show on a website that can do whatever the heck it wants as long as it's not too illegal? Feels like a bullshit excuse to get people to use the app because the app can show ads that can't be (easily) blocked, collect more data, and send annoying notifications (in addition to useful ones).

Bart Nijbakker

@grishka @organicmaps Agreed, but I assume this is similar to YouTube requiring you log in to see restricted videos so they can verify your age. (I haven't confirmed this though, and if the app doesn't require a login with age verification, this argument falls flat)

Most likely Reddit is cutting costs on moderators as well which is why smaller communities are unmoderated now. (Which makes a good point for your in-app ads argument)

Григорий Клюшников

Bart, so I tested it. This only pops up when you aren't logged in. So they're still lying to you by saying "please use the app" instead of "please log in". But even then, you can still view that same damn "unreviewed" subreddit anonymously if you open old.reddit.com, so the account requirement is, of course, entirely artificial ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

YouTube is at least 100% consistent about it.

Bart Nijbakker

@grishka
Well begging to use the app isn't new... Haha.

Thanks for the old reddit domain tip!

Bart Nijbakker

@organicmaps Then there is a workaround 😮 cool, thanks!!

I should mention, thank you for being a wholesome community and making a genuinely good app! 👏 I decided to finally start supporting with a monthly amount, to put my money where my mouth is.

Organic Maps

@bnijbakker We are very grateful for your support, thanks!

Robert "Szkodnix"

@organicmaps@fosstodon.org Oh no!

Anyway: back to my F-Droid version of Organic Maps... 😇

Sem

@organicmaps That is exactly the reason why I prefer to use Obtainium as the main source of android apps. F&ck Google Play and GMS!

Reiddragon :ablobcatattention:
@organicmaps Google applying their policies in obtuse and inconsistent ways???? surprised :blobcatpika:
Olaf Kock

@organicmaps at least it's not this place in Austria (that used to be spelled with "ck", but renamed itself as the city signs were constantly stolen)

osm.org/go/0JIZctB1-?m

Truls

@olafk There is an Austrian/German movie that picked up on that name:

themoviedb.org/movie/246314

zetabeta

@organicmaps
google and youtube, which are owned by alphabet inc.

there is already info, that youtube makes arbitrary decisions on bans and de-moneytization. getting information is difficult, and challenge process is tedious. it seems it is similar for google play.

if possible, avoid google. consider ungoogled phones and f-droid.

Em-squared

@organicmaps Fingers crossed this gets resolved. Dealing with minopolistic gatekeeper can be frustrating.

Simon Dalvai

@organicmaps The problem might be related to the Family Program. I had similar issues with my apps, and opting out of the Family Program was th easiest way to solve the issue.
Google takes the Family Program requirements really serious.

Andrew

@dulvui @organicmaps not seriously enough to employ a human being in the process though?

El Perro Negro

@organicmaps you've got them worried. Well done, keep up the excellent work

gentlegardener

@organicmaps ugh well I never knew you existed over here in iOS land and just downloaded. Thanks!

sunflowerinrain

@organicmaps Oh no!
Oh, relief - I get #OrganicMapsApp from #F-Droid not goothingy.
#F-Droid ftw

It would be better if I could de-goothingy the phone.

Estarriol, Cat owned Dragon

@organicmaps sounds like apps with ads complained they were losing out to you.

Pixelcode 🇺🇦

@organicmaps Well, since you don't have in-app ads, those are definitely not appropriate for children ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

⏚ Antoine Chambert-Loir

@organicmaps are you also present on alternative platoforms such as F-Droid?

Simon MĂźller :ablobcatcoffee:

@antoinechambertloir @organicmaps they are, but GSF-Provided location services aren't available in the F-Droid build.

Martin 🧀

@organicmaps is the fdroid version different than the one on google play?

Simon MĂźller :ablobcatcoffee:

@mart_e @organicmaps it doesn't feature GSF Location Services, so it's purely GPS.

the esoteric programmer

@organicmaps perhaps just have an fdroid version and an apk file on your website? While this may hamper discoverability a bit, it will open the way to no longer being so dependent on google and their application store monopoly

Askaaron

@organicmaps And why don't you mention F-Droid? Is that version not maintained by you?

f-droid.org/en/packages/app.or

Bastian Voigt

@organicmaps I learned about your beautiful App only because of this toot. Thanks Google!

Askaaron

@organicmaps Well - just provide a compliant update. Take care of what you declare in the app information (is the app for children etc.) and do NOT use any ads if the app is if you do target children as well.

Dark Kassandra

@organicmaps

Google best practice is always EEE, embrace extend extinguish

God bless Organic Maps

#organicmaps #degoogle #google #foss

InsertUser

@organicmaps well they've been ruled a monopoly now, no point pretending otherwise.

Alex

@organicmaps and of course you can get it through #fdroid as I do 😀

Niroj

@organicmaps time to create a separate f-droid repo for organic maps.

Fish Id Wardrobe

@organicmaps Just trying Organic Maps and really like it. But sadly new car pretty much demands I use Android Auto. So, back to Google. :(

methuselah

@organicmaps @daniel can relate when conversations was deleted for no reason

XorOwl

@organicmaps sounds like its time to be on f-droid as well perhaps

Karmalakas

@organicmaps but this APK won't work on Android Auto, will it?

nictakiego

@organicmaps @karmalakas Are you 100% sure about it? Updating could make app not compatible with AA, and there will be no option to go back (cuz app is not available on Google Play Store)

see shy jo

@organicmaps gosh I wonder why a CONVICTED MONOPOLIST would do this

sunshine

@organicmaps Works fine from F-Droid! Excited to try it out!

Simulation#6

@organicmaps This will sure help Googles monopoly finding.

xs4me2

@organicmaps It is what you get with big tech monopolies… this winner takes all market protection hampers innovation and it needs to change!

Dzso

@organicmaps Organic Maps is hands down the best maps all, and Google attempting to limit my access to it feels hostile to me as a user.

JĂĄn HaluĹĄka

@organicmaps Updates for Organic Maps were broken for me for the last couple of months, I had to update thru F-Droid

Daltux

@organicmaps The Big G Brother monopolist practices must stop. People should avoid it at all costs.

#Fdroid everybody right now.

#FreeSoftware #FreeAsInFreedom

Gary G

@organicmaps Good to know about you! App downloaded and will test it out on Android Auto later

Tero Keski-Valkama

@organicmaps, wow, they don't like competition! I installed this app and donated. It's very fast compared to Google Maps!

Blender Dumbass ( J.Y.Amihud )

@organicmaps I don't know at this point why bother using Google Play. If enough people will withdraw their software from it. It will fail. And phone manufacturers will be forced to preinstall F-Droid on it.

BitcoDavid #FuckTrump

@organicmaps

Well, that certainly explains why most apps are so childish.

nictakiego

@organicmaps "It should work with Android Auto" emmm, on which android version? Isn't required explicit installation from google play store on newest androids for it to work with AA?

hambier

@organicmaps I guess I'll have to thank Google 🤡

No, it's a shame of course, but this thread made me discover OrganicMaps! I *finally* found the perfect OSM map app. And it's FOSS on top. It also includes the features that other apps paywall.

Sponsorship incoming...

Forcen

@organicmaps maybe it's the sponsored kayak links on hotels?

Marek

@organicmaps Or simply use F-Droid! Who needs Google.

skimm

@organicmaps

Google really out here trying to see how many antitrust suits they can collect like they're pokemeon.

Some bullshit

Un Bourguignon 🇪🇺🇺🇦 :firedoge:

@organicmaps
I do think they dee your app as a straight (and better ?) opponnent to "kill". Anti concurrency case.

Winter Trabex

@organicmaps

They "just" got ruled a monopoly, and they pull this.

Lapidarius

@organicmaps

🇩🇪
Ich finde, Google-Maps wurde verschlimmbessert. 🧐

Mittlerweile nutze ich anstatt Google (bin Local Guide) ßberwiegend Alternativen wie Open Street Map (habe auch dort einiges eingepflegt und ergänzt), Mapy, Organic Map und andere. Gegenßber diesen Programmen sieht Google-Maps fßr meine Begriffe alt und dßrftig aus. Lediglich der Suchalgorithmus bzw. die Onlinekarte verleitet mich dazu, hin und wieder Google-Maps zu Üffnen.

🇬🇧
I think Google Maps has been made worse by trying to improve it.

Instead of Google (I'm a local guide), I now mainly use alternatives such as Open Street Map (I've also added a few things to it), Mapy, Organic Map and others. Compared to these programs, Google Maps looks old and poor in my opinion. Only the search algorithm and the online map tempt me to open Google Maps from time to time.

@organicmaps

🇩🇪
Ich finde, Google-Maps wurde verschlimmbessert. 🧐

Mittlerweile nutze ich anstatt Google (bin Local Guide) ßberwiegend Alternativen wie Open Street Map (habe auch dort einiges eingepflegt und ergänzt), Mapy, Organic Map und andere. Gegenßber diesen Programmen sieht Google-Maps fßr meine Begriffe alt und dßrftig aus. Lediglich der Suchalgorithmus bzw. die Onlinekarte verleitet mich dazu, hin und wieder Google-Maps zu Üffnen.

Un Bourguignon 🇪🇺🇺🇦 :firedoge:

@organicmaps
Just installed this. Good job. Now, it's clear that Google does want to kill your app which us far better than theirs.

One example to show (and it's accurate !) :

malte

@organicmaps Is Organic Maps available on F-droid?

shlewislee

@organicmaps *Everyone* should use F-droid *primarily* at this point.

Organic Maps

@shlewislee we recommend using Obtainium and our GitHub releases directly. They are available immediately, there are beta/preview builds, and they have optional Google location services (you can turn them off in settings) to help get your location faster: github.com/organicmaps/organic

Organic Maps

@shlewislee fdroid builds do not work with Android Auto and detect location slower without Google location services. And require downloading world maps first (bad first-time UX).

CryptGoat

@organicmaps #GooglePlay just being unreasonable and incomprehensible as always.

U.Lancier

@organicmaps In the issue it states that it "must include ads" - this can't be the issue in this case, can it?

Scott VE3QBZ

@organicmaps if it's presently installed on my phone, will it get updates, or will it need a fresh install?

Organic Maps

@ve3qbz don’t uninstall, we hope to find a solution.

hootamy :verified_trans:

@organicmaps the other common violations sound equally unhinged

Ret the Folf

@organicmaps the way Google handles age ratings on apps is so bad. I’ve submitted so many boring business tool apps and given them 3+ ratings, to be immediately faced with “Oh, so it’s for kids then? tick all these boxes, fill in all these forms” - okay fine it’s for grown ups only - “OH, SO IT’S A PORN APP THEN?!! :blobfoxsnugglare: “… ffs.

Grant Slater

@organicmaps My personal view is go speak to journalists. This story would get good traction.

Khmer vert pÊpère

@organicmaps I guess I was waiting for this to install Organic and remove ggmaps, which I just did.

Tobia Alberti

@organicmaps It looks like your Google Play listing has been restored 🙂

Rayner Howard GISP

@organicmaps Works from Hungary, installed it just now from the Google App Store, wonder if it's a regional thing

P.McNewHold :flagPiratbyraan:

@organicmaps How can they say they still have humans working on manual moderation of their services when we see automated cases like these ? Thankfully, already was having it updated via Obtainium by @ImranR. Oh, and @fdroidorg too.

[DATA EXPUNGED]
KarlE

@organicmaps clearly you are violating requirement two: ...must: include both app and ad content...
you are lacking the required ad content! 😉

Seriously, it's a shame and I hope you will get reinstated soon.

Axel

@organicmaps awful! Not unexpected knowing how both Google and Apple's monopolies work. FOSS FTW! We need to stand up to this )✊

Jennifer

@organicmaps just downloaded this on my android phone!

WofWca

@organicmaps I use Organic Maps' breastfeeding tracker feature every day

WofWca

@organicmaps I'm referring to "some examples of common violations" :D

jouni

@organicmaps Maybe they see OM as thread to their own map? A good sign indeed!

Asta McCarthy

@organicmaps Or even better, install f-droid.org/ and install OrganicMaps from there. Don't live by arbitrary Google-monopoly-rules.

#foss #OrganicMaps #opensource #monopolist

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