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Shadow Cheetah

Tip if you have autistic friends*:

You know that thing where you're talking about wanting an orange, and they suddenly start rambling about status symbols in ancient Rome?

Info dumping is a display of trust and affection. Many autistic people have been repeatedly punished for being their true selves, often to the point of serious trauma. If they're letting you see into their very minds and sharing what they care most about, it's an act of vulnerability and trust.

Info dumping can also be because their brains are just full of stuff they've been obsessing over, and getting it out is their way of giving up what they love to make space for your conversation.

So, if you REALLY want to make their day, return the favor. Focus on their conversation instead of yours. The magic words are: "Really? Tell me more."

Just make sure you mean it. Authenticity matters. Then, sit back and enjoy a random TED lecture.

#ActuallyAutistic #neurdivergent #autism

* Disclaimer: If you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. Won't apply to all, but probably to most.

9 August at 3:41 | Open on meow.social
40 comments
Hannah Steenbock

@shadowcheets

Thank you.

Most people have no idea how often I have censored myself, shut myself down, stopped an infodump because it doesn't fit in, because they will think I'm weird and give me *that* look.

I long for someone to care enough to let me ramble. Because I pay that favor forward so much, I listen to people so much, I encourage them, I support them, but they won't listen to me...

9 August at 6:06 | Open on writing.exchange
shom πŸ§πŸ“·πŸ€ΏπŸ”οΈπŸͺš

@Firlefanz what are you currently most into? I would genuinely like to know if you're willing to share!
@shadowcheets

9 August at 6:11 | Open on fosstodon.org
Hannah Steenbock

@shom

My writing ideas have utterly exploded over the last few days, so I'd love to ramble about my characters (of four different stories, no less!), about the amazing worlds that are growing in my mind... it feels a tad insane even to me. (Wouldn't let me sleep much last night.)

And well, I could explain to anyone how indie publishing works, what resources to use, how to set up specific promos, how hard it is to reach people and find fans, how Mastodon fits into all of this.

@shadowcheets

9 August at 6:15 | Open on writing.exchange
Hannah Steenbock

@shom

And gods, it's not at all about how great I am, it's really about all the wonderful ideas, the stories, it's about all the knowledge, I want people to know all those amazing details and opportunities and chances and...

... and how those people grow in my mind and how they develop personalities and what their challenges are and how much I love them and...

Yeah. That makes people look at me like I'm weird.

@shadowcheets

9 August at 6:18 | Open on writing.exchange
shom πŸ§πŸ“·πŸ€ΏπŸ”οΈπŸͺš

@Firlefanz wow! That's the best kind of weird. You have an entire universe in your mind with characters living in realities that are as real as our own. When I am dreaming about interacting with a stranger, that stranger is me but my conscious has no access to their thoughts. The fact that authors (you!) can do that and weave the stories and characters together while being true to each character's inner being is incredible to me.
Not to mention publishing, also fascinating!
@shadowcheets

9 August at 6:27 | Open on fosstodon.org
Hannah Steenbock

@shom

Thank you!
I'm in tears here. ❀️
Thank you so much!

Sometimes, the only way to stop the ideas from messing up my brain is to write them down. That's how I started - and I think that's where I'm headed again this month. Hopefully, it lasts for a while, I love watching stories grow as my fingers type them out.

@shadowcheets

9 August at 6:30 | Open on writing.exchange
shom πŸ§πŸ“·πŸ€ΏπŸ”οΈπŸͺš

@Firlefanz
> β€œI love watching stories grow as my fingers type them out.”
I had a vivid image of hands typing on an old typewriter and a tree of life growing with each stroke of the keys. If I could sketch that would be a neat visual to create.
@shadowcheets

9 August at 6:40 | Open on fosstodon.org
Hannah Steenbock

@shom

That's a neat image, indeed. 😍

I did learn to type on one of those old ones. I'm very glad keyboards are so much easier on the hands, though. πŸ™ƒ

@shadowcheets

9 August at 8:32 | Open on writing.exchange
shom πŸ§πŸ“·πŸ€ΏπŸ”οΈπŸͺš

@Firlefanz thank you for taking my invitation and sharing! I love hearing from people about the things that they're passionate about. There are so many amazing things to learn, but not enough time. So a knowledgeable guide is a true treasure!

@shadowcheets

9 August at 6:31 | Open on fosstodon.org
Hannah Steenbock

@shom

Thank you for listening. For letting all that bubble out of me.

It feels so wonderful to be seen for once, to find a soul with a similar mind.

So here is my invitation to you: Ask me anything you ever wanted to know about books but also a LOT of other things. ❀️ (Germany, German as a language, phonetics, horses, archaeology, middle ages, the stone age, to name a few.)

I love, love, love to share knowledge and facts.

@shadowcheets

9 August at 6:36 | Open on writing.exchange
shom πŸ§πŸ“·πŸ€ΏπŸ”οΈπŸͺš

@Firlefanz that's very generous and kind of you! I can honestly say that of all the topics you listed, I'm interested in all the things with a spectrum from: I'm least interested in the European Middle Ages (there's so much attention on Europe in English media when more interesting things were happening elsewhere in the world) and I'm least informed about horses (I think they're magestic and have ridden horses before).

(Headed out tonight but I look forward to following&chatting)
@shadowcheets

@Firlefanz that's very generous and kind of you! I can honestly say that of all the topics you listed, I'm interested in all the things with a spectrum from: I'm least interested in the European Middle Ages (there's so much attention on Europe in English media when more interesting things were happening elsewhere in the world) and I'm least informed about horses (I think they're magestic and have ridden horses before).

9 August at 6:54 | Open on fosstodon.org
Hannah Steenbock

@shom

Yes, so much fantasy is based on the European Middle Ages, it's becoming a bit boring to see. Most of it, however, is filtered through Hollywood and not at all true to what the records say.

Horses were my first hyperfocus. I love them, used to ride them and miss them.

(So yeah, I wrote a shapeshifter who turned himself into a mule, one of my favorite characters.)

I live at GMT+2, and I'm looking forward to chatting more.

@shadowcheets

9 August at 8:36 | Open on writing.exchange
mkj

@Firlefanz I read a book series set in a largely present-day Sweden through a technological collapse, and one thing that author brought up actually in the storytelling was how horses were far less common as draft animals than is often depicted; oxen having been far more common. I haven't looked up the facts, but I wouldn't be surprised if that actually was the case. Another Hollywoodism, I imagine.

@shom @shadowcheets

9 August at 9:13 | Open on social.mkj.earth
Hannah Steenbock replied to mkj

@mkj

Yeah, oxen are much easier to handle, and they might actually also be easier to feed. They are slow but strong. Horses are very fickle about food and colic quickly. They also were more expensive.

@shom @shadowcheets

9 August at 9:29 | Open on writing.exchange
mkj replied to Hannah

@Firlefanz Horses are also, if you'll excuse me for saying so, something you'd need to breed and keep specifically for the purpose. Bovine bull calves is something you get all the time anyway if you keep cows. Which is another reason why it makes sense to put the bull calves to some use, rather than *also* keeping horses. (Unless, of course, that is, you have some *additional* reason to want horses specifically.)

@shom @shadowcheets

9 August at 9:32 | Open on social.mkj.earth
Hannah Steenbock replied to mkj

@mkj

Exactly! They are "surplus", easy to obtain.

@shom @shadowcheets

9 August at 10:17 | Open on writing.exchange
mkj replied to Hannah

@Firlefanz Easy to obtain / cheaper; easier to feed; easier to handle. Sounds to me like a solid choice. πŸ™‚

@shom @shadowcheets

9 August at 10:51 | Open on social.mkj.earth
Shadow Cheetah replied to mkj

@mkj @Firlefanz @shom

I never thought about this, but it makes perfect sense.

I run a lot of tabletop games, so this is just going to be a thing now in my worlds. Thanks so much for sharing! I've loved getting to wake up and unexpectedly have so much to learn.

9 August at 12:55 | Open on meow.social
Shadow Cheetah

@Firlefanz @shom This I've detail is really cool: it's about the ideas, not us in many cases.

I know it doesn't come across that way for most NTs.

My theory is that autistic people are information first. Info is sacred, and sharing it clearly is a must for real communication and connection. No info, and we don't know how to act or feel. It's very uncomfortable.

However, NTs are feelings first. They have to feel comfortable before they can exchange info comfortably. Hence, small talk (and why most of us hate it).

So, if you start taking about your interest, this signals a transition. Their minds go back to step 1: establishing feelings. But then, when you dive into details, to them you are skipping their feelings, which must make it all about your feelings, which is seen as selfish, or all about us.

But for us, we can't be comfortable starting from feelings. So, we naturally want to provide information that we believe is cool, potentially engaging, and real.

I suspect that's a big part of the double empathy problem in autistic-allistic communication.

If you get the impulse to share more about your character, feel free! I can tell you put a lot into developing your writing skills. :D

@Firlefanz @shom This I've detail is really cool: it's about the ideas, not us in many cases.

I know it doesn't come across that way for most NTs.

My theory is that autistic people are information first. Info is sacred, and sharing it clearly is a must for real communication and connection. No info, and we don't know how to act or feel. It's very uncomfortable.

9 August at 12:35 | Open on meow.social
Hannah Steenbock

@shadowcheets

I do need to feel safe, at least to a degree, to even try to share. Or maybe feel welcome.

But yeah, information is cool. Facts are awesome. They are dependable, unlike the feelings of people - maybe that is the key. Facts don't change quickly (and unpredictably).

Of course, I write a lot about feelings and how they change for my characters. They usually have logical reasons for it, though.

Fascinating topic to think and chat about!

Thank you much for this talk.

@shom

9 August at 12:41 | Open on writing.exchange
Shadow Cheetah

@Firlefanz @shom Interesting!

I view it as a tier, not one or the other. So we start with information, which informs our feelings.

Allistics tend to start with feelings, which informs how they handle the information.

In the end, we all can have both, but our order of operations are flipped. XD

9 August at 13:01 | Open on meow.social
Hannah Steenbock

@shadowcheets

Yes! That makes sense.

Like different paths in a flow chart. (Back to systems, eh?) And we pick one and NTs tend to pick another, but it all leads to sharing and fun if we can make it work.

@shom

9 August at 13:07 | Open on writing.exchange
MFierst

@Firlefanz @shadowcheets @shom
Hmmm πŸ€”
Do both path's reach the same result, you think? I doubt that.

Starting with feelings and do facts later, tends to filter the free flow of incoming information, does it not?

Emotions often tend to lead to irrationality to make facts fits, or else invent new facts.
(see recent politics and social tendencies for an illustration)

It would be nice if both path's would lead to shared views.
It definitely is fun if it works, I agree with that.

@Firlefanz @shadowcheets @shom
Hmmm πŸ€”
Do both path's reach the same result, you think? I doubt that.

Starting with feelings and do facts later, tends to filter the free flow of incoming information, does it not?

Emotions often tend to lead to irrationality to make facts fits, or else invent new facts.
(see recent politics and social tendencies for an illustration)

9 August at 13:49 | Open on mstdn.social
MFierst

@Firlefanz @shadowcheets @shom
Right. You remind me of a conversation I had in a past life.

Me: "You are speaking for the effect your words will have, are you not?"
He was surprised. Eyebrows raised.
"Yes. You are not?"

"No, I am telling you the facts. It is what it is."
He: "But why, want do you want to achieve?"
"Nothing except I want you to know and understand reality. You can do what you like, but the reality will not be changed by mere words."

(unless when writing fiction, perhaps? πŸ€” )

@Firlefanz @shadowcheets @shom
Right. You remind me of a conversation I had in a past life.

Me: "You are speaking for the effect your words will have, are you not?"
He was surprised. Eyebrows raised.
"Yes. You are not?"

"No, I am telling you the facts. It is what it is."
He: "But why, want do you want to achieve?"
"Nothing except I want you to know and understand reality. You can do what you like, but the reality will not be changed by mere words."

9 August at 13:07 | Open on mstdn.social
Shadow Cheetah

@mfierst @Firlefanz @shom The best fiction also contains truth. :D

But yeah, that's the feeling I have. I am still learning, though, and I can't guarantee I fully understand the NT process (or even our own).

This is just my best theory so far, and it seems to match behavior I see!

9 August at 13:12 | Open on meow.social
Shadow Cheetah

@Firlefanz We get trained early on that we are responsible for not only regulating our own emotions, but everyone else's. We do it a lot, but most never know.

I haven't caught up yet on the rest of the messages, but the sheer number of them tells me info dumping is ahead. I think this is great! XD

9 August at 12:12 | Open on meow.social
Steffo 🐲

@shadowcheets Thank you!! Bookmarked it, so I can send it to other people who, I think, need to read this.

And as an autistic person myself.. yeah, I sometimes "want" to censor myself, when the response to my talking is just.. quiet. Nothing. Only the awkwardness of nobody responding to my talking is left. It's as if I destroyed the conversation and it's all my fault.

Happened way too often. :(

9 August at 6:30 | Open on fellies.social
Shadow Cheetah

@SteffoSpieler I feel this so much! It can be rough when you try to engage in a really personal way, and there's just nothing. It feels like personal rejection, because for most of us, our minds are the most important part of the world. And then you share yours and everyone shows it's the last thing they wanted to know about.

I info dumped the details myself in another post here, but I really think the core is that we can't communicate unless information is shared, and allistics can't communicate until feelings are established, so you end up with this nearly mutually exclusive order problem. But since they outnumber is, their way is considered the only right way.

I'm really hoping someday, there is enough understanding that we can all meet in the middle. Right not, autistic have to build the entire bridge to others.

@SteffoSpieler I feel this so much! It can be rough when you try to engage in a really personal way, and there's just nothing. It feels like personal rejection, because for most of us, our minds are the most important part of the world. And then you share yours and everyone shows it's the last thing they wanted to know about.

9 August at 12:48 | Open on meow.social
Ramses Revengeday :revengeday:
Cal Alaera

@shadowcheets Frankly, I would much rather have an infodump about status symbols in ancient Rome than yet another conversation about the weather. I might actually learn something!

9 August at 8:02 | Open on kind.social
Sparky πŸ’‘

@Cal Yeah, I would much rather hear about some fascinating stuff from history, technology or whatever than people regurgitating the news or something news-shaped.

9 August at 9:48 | Open on kind.social
Shadow Cheetah

@Cal I want, just once, for someone to fake me out, start taking about the weather, and suddenly info dump about meteorology and the details of today's cloud formations. XD

9 August at 12:51 | Open on meow.social
Miriam Jacobs
Jhooper

@shadowcheets Almost everyone in my immediate family is autistic. When my son is getting ready for bed, he tells me about his day in the form of an info dump about the game he is playing.

9 August at 11:08 | Open on techhub.social
Shadow Cheetah

@jhooper I used to try to do this with my parents, but they are allistic and it never really worked.

So, it makes me somehow really happy that your son gets to do what I always wanted. XD

Sounds like a nice family!

9 August at 12:57 | Open on meow.social
KatLS
kaiserkiwi :kiwibird:

@shadowcheets Most people usually mock me when I info dump. I'm actively working on suppressing this urge. πŸ˜•

9 August at 11:24 | Open on corteximplant.com
Shadow Cheetah

@kaiserkiwi I frequently have to as well. I don't think it's healthy long run, which is why I started diving into the details of what is going on socially.

I think I understand the disconnect now, but still have no solution beyond throwing out a post on Mastodon. XD

9 August at 12:59 | Open on meow.social
Jaycie

@shadowcheets Was getting a little choked up just reading this.

9 August at 13:57 | Open on tech.lgbt
DELETED

@shadowcheets@meow.social i used to get told to shut up a lot cuz i would start rambling about random stuff i was interested in and it heavily made me not wanna talk about anything to people because i was always scared of being annoying

9 August at 14:02 | Open on lethallava.land
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