Gregory's Server@mhoye People got it out of their system and realize that until battery capacity improves it's not worth the effort and the thousands of dollars it costs to install a decent charger in your garage.
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54 comments
 1. My garage is on the opposite side of my house from my electrical panel. 2. My electrical panel is full. 3. Installing a car charger would involve upgrading the feed from the street to support the extra 50A circuit. 4. If you found a qualified, licensed electrician to do that job for $700 including the cost of the charger, please give me his name, because he's the cheapest electrician I've ever heard of.  @ShredderFeeder @mhoye Our panel is full too but we previously had a Nissan leaf and the charger that it came with just plugged into a regular plug. It only did slow charging but that worked for us @CosmicTraveler @mhoye I had a friend buy one of those a few years back. I think he took it back after about two weeks and bought a Prius.  @ShredderFeeder @CosmicTraveler @mhoye @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye When I do road trips I do straight through trips. (half of my annual mileage is my summer beach trip, and I usually do it in a single drive with a 10 minute gas break. 530 miles in about 6 hours. Can't do that in an electric. @ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye @mmlvx @ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye https://aptera.us still claims "Travel up to @PuddleOfKittens @mmlvx @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye It's an interesting idea. Supplemental power is not a bad thing because batteries alone aren't going to be good enough. @ShredderFeeder @mmlvx @PuddleOfKittens @mhoye @jannem @CosmicTraveler We’ve had an EV with charging in our garage (power had to be run from back of house, cost only $1100 total) since 2018 and have taken various road trips with zero problems. Never visiting a gas station (charging stations are quiet, don’t smell, and are a welcome 20 min break from driving for us and our kid), the quiet drive, and lack of maintenance are well worth it @ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye You would need maybe two charge stops. So it would take 40 minutes total, 30 additional minutes. Definitely sounds like a dealbreaker to me. @arigesher @ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye and oh boy. Two 20-minute breaks on a 10 hour ride (iso 1x10 minutes) would make it more relaxed and save. The horror! @KFvMalssen @arigesher @ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye Yeah, I have to do more breaks on a job, where I'm not even able to kill anyone. @arigesher @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye The last 100 or so miles is charger-station-free backwater South Carolina. So it would have to be one good charge at the halfway point more likely...and you'd coast into that one on your last electrons.. @ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye ok don’t buy one. Or rent your vacation vehicle. Your singular use case represents a tiny fraction of what people do daily with their cars.  @ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye I do this every month, and regularly need to round trip Seattle to Portland without time to charge. Between that and not having access to a charger at my house or any other location, and it's a completely unavailable solution for me. That said, I recognize I'm in the vast minority here. Essentially everyone in America should be able to do EVs already even without better infrastructure. @ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye you literallu can do it nowadays. I did it 400 miles just this weekend with a single food break and charge left at the end.  @ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye you could have an electric for the 49 weeks where you do short trip and rent a really nice car with the saved money to go to the beach for the remaining 2 weeks @ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye you can't do that in a normal car either. 530 miles in 6 hours is an average of 88 mph, not accounting for acceleration or deceleration or your gas stop. If half of your annual mileage is 1,060, you don't need to own a car.  @ShredderFeeder @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye So you are telling is you go for 6 hours with out eating or going to the toilet or having a decent enough break not to be driving fatigued and hence higher risk of having a accident. @SuperMoosie @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye I did DC to Orlando in 12 hours once. You eat in the car and stop for bio breaks while gassing. Never more than 10 minutes. I love driving. It's my happy place. I don't do it for work anymore so when I do I enjoy it @ShredderFeeder @SuperMoosie @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye is your enjoyment worth burning the planet @SuperMoosie @jannem @CosmicTraveler @mhoye last accident I was in was in the late 80s. @mhoye @CosmicTraveler @jannem while many people do trips like that doctors and highway safety engineers tell you not to. Take longes breaks for health and safety.  @ShredderFeeder @mhoye Just put on some synthetic fibre socks and skitter around the garage to build up a good static charge. Then, touch the battery. You're welcome.  You may have a 100a supply, though I have to ask what kind of charging you think you might need, a lot of people drive so little that a regular 10a plug can do the job over night. More is nice, obv, but doesn't have to be the only option.  @ShredderFeeder @doctormo @mhoye There are companies that convert older (often classic) cars to EV. That seems like the best option for folks like us. They rip out all the gas systems, fit battery boxes wherever they can, and make a mounting plate for the electric motor. They typically end up about the same level of tech as the foundation car. @neverbeaten @doctormo @mhoye I had a friend who converted an old Mitsubishi eclipse to electric. It was good for his commute but not much else ..but that was the purpose. He had his truck for everything useful.  @ShredderFeeder @doctormo @mhoye honestly driving a car without internet is almost impossible now. Every car in the last few years is connected, whether you use the internet side or not, the OEM is gathering your and the vehicles data When I was working at stelantis, the only car they had that was newer than 2017 that wasn't connected was the dodge journey @doctormo @ShredderFeeder @mhoye Heck yes. I had a 100A bursting-at-the-seams panel and only used L1 charging for the first six months I had my EV. It went so well I almost didn’t do the L2 install, but I’m overly privileged and had the means, so I did it anyway. Plus the 200A panel upgrade will let me go full-electric in my home, for when I have the means to ditch the oil boiler. That $4k install doesn’t only have to be for an EV. @ShredderFeeder @mhoye Unless you drive as lot, (or need to drive a huge car) you probably only need a 15A 120V circuit to charge your EV. A regular circuit will add about 40 miles to your car overnight, and if you drive less than 40 miles per day on average, you're golden. If that's not sufficient, a 30A 240 V circuit will add more than 100 miles per night, even for a big car. @gpk @ShredderFeeder @mhoye If you're going 240 volts, you might as well go for a 50 amp circuit. (It's the same circuit that newer RVs use.) @mhoye Also - I drive less than 2,500 miles a year. It takes a LONG time to to make up $700 in savings at that rate. ;-) Also - i've worked with computers long enough to not trust any car that is controlled by one. @ShredderFeeder @mhoye if you're really driving so little, you can charge on a 110 outlet. I did for a few months before we got a charger installed. Worked fine for a daily burbs-to-city-and-back commute, and some shopping trips. @ShredderFeeder @mhoye I'd keep you going until you entirely filled my EV FUD bingo card, but I've got better things to do. @ShredderFeeder @dave @mhoye They're fine with it. LOL. Just keep them plugged in with a charge limit of 80% capacity everyday and you're fine. @ShredderFeeder @mhoye If you are driving that little, you are not the problem. You are fine with an ICE. Or an e-bicycle. It is not worth the mining footprint to switch to a huge USian EV with 300 miles range and enough weight to take up two spots on a car ferry. @Brad_Rosenheim @mhoye it's good since I won't be caught dead in any car built after 2014. EV's aren't my hang-up, but internet-connected cars? Not a fucking chance. Those are a hack away from being a mass-casualty-event. (All someone has to do is "Every Tesla Turns Left NOW!") and we're all done for. @ShredderFeeder @Brad_Rosenheim @mhoye I don't even like the computer in my 2010. My only solace is that you have to connect a physical cable *AND* have the key to hack it... (and even then, I have mechanical brakes and a real steering column that's connected to the wheels by more than just a wire.)  @ShredderFeeder @Brad_Rosenheim @mhoye  @ShredderFeeder @mhoye If you drive just 2500 miles/y (that’s about 2 KWh per day) why do you need a “decent charger” (I guess you mean a fast charger)? Just use a regular plug like for a tumbler (3’500 W).  @ShredderFeeder @mhoye it's fine if you don't want one or it doesn't suit your needs. You can just say that without suggesting EVs are bad for everyone. @webcubus @mhoye I never did, just said they don't provide the cost savings they promise in many ways. I do believe that they are, in many ways, much worse for the environment. We've just replaced drilling for oil with stripmining for lithium, manganese, cobalt, nickel, iron, etc... Every 60kw battery contains about 185kg of these minerals.. And you need to replace them about once every 10-15 years. @mhoye FWIW, I drive an EV every day, haven't installed a home charger, and charge using a standard wall socket (at ~1.4kW). No dramas whatsoever. OP: Here's a fact that contradicts the normal narrative. Reply guy: "Yes, the normal narrative is obviously correct, because I believe it very strongly." My guy, I'm curious, what capacity do you believe is necessary, because the longest ranged EVs get about the same range as gas cars, which...is VASTLY farther than is needed for a daily commute vehicle which is all anyone needs for a second car, and is plenty long enough for road trips right now. |
@ShredderFeeder Speaking as somebody who did that, the number of thousands of dollars it costs to install a decent charger in your garage is "0.7" and it pays for itself in a few weeks.