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Top-level
 @Melaskia @zverik @IvanSanchez this is why I love apps like @streetcomplete and @everydoor. They're highlighting another level of #OpenStreetMap and making it much easier for people (incl me) to add that data. There are many types of data, where we are far from complete 13 comments
 @amapanda @Melaskia @zverik @IvanSanchez @luis_in_brief ... Note on the side compared to WP even iD makes contributing trivial so we are not talking about a high bar to entry to start with. I had a longer discussion on a related topic with @zverik here https://en.osm.town/@simon/112206877070048055 @amapanda @Melaskia @zverik @IvanSanchez @luis_in_brief My hypothesis is that making things easier also reduces the value of leaning how to contribute and makes the whole thing less of a rewarding pastime. There are naturally similar scenarios in all areas of human endeavour. @amapanda @Melaskia @zverik @IvanSanchez @luis_in_brief Back on the maintenance topic. There has been this concept that this would be done by the drive by contributors that the "simple" tools are targeted at, and while that can't be completely dismissed, just the volume and nature of what has to be maintained would suggest that that is not going to happen. Just consider that it isn't really #OpenStreetMap these days ... @amapanda @Melaskia @zverik @IvanSanchez @luis_in_brief .. but more "OpenBuildingMap" keeping that up to date, regardless of (insert you fav buzz word here) tooling is simply uninteresting drudgery that is only going to be done by people that are actually committed to the cause. ... @amapanda @Melaskia @zverik @IvanSanchez @luis_in_brief ... Factor in the difference in contribution volume between incidental and even just average regular contributors (easily 10^5) and I believe you can't come to a different conclusion that what we really need is more highly engaged and dedicated contributors.  @simon @amapanda @Melaskia @IvanSanchez @luis_in_brief Yeah I came to a similar conclusion. Not dismissing drive-by contributors from OMaps and SC — they are essential because some map is better than no map. But I really don't know how to find highly engaged contributors. How to find people that look at the map and think, oh, okay, this might be the thing to which I will devote every day of the rest of my life. All I can do is make tools to ease and speed up our work, so we focus on fun bits. @simon @amapanda @Melaskia @IvanSanchez @luis_in_brief When OSM is mentioned, it's always boring stuff like "open license", "tech enthusiasts", "used by major corporations", "everyone can register" blah blah. Not the real things like you could go into a forest or a city, experience it from new sides, learn a lot and share this knowledge with others via mapping with your phone or camera or pen and paper. It makes you smarter and healthier and doesn't require you to learn Python or whatever.  @simon @amapanda @Melaskia @IvanSanchez @luis_in_brief That is actually an excellent point! Because "contributing to OSM" is a non-goal, much like "reading a book" or "caring for the environment". A goal needs to be achievable (e.g. medals in StreetComplete) and social (so that a person gets some praise). Missing Maps events got that quite right. For me, OSM is kinda like pokemon: I like to collect everything. That's why @everydoor is like this: clunky but super effective at a scale. @zverik @simon @amapanda @IvanSanchez @luis_in_brief @everydoor @zverik @amapanda @Melaskia @IvanSanchez @luis_in_brief I would nearly completely disagree, we have plenty of experience, with the examples that you mention, how horribly it can go wrong if improving the "map" for yourself and for others is not the primary motivation. The best positive feedback is things working better for you however you interact with #OpenStreetMap. ... |
Gregory's Server
@amapanda @Melaskia @zverik @IvanSanchez @luis_in_brief
Since I've had anything to do with OSM, a good 15 years, enabling low barriers to entry has been the dominating mantra, and there have been wide variety of apps doing exactly that.
They do not drive long term engagement any better than the web based browser iD, and actually most of them are so much worse at doing that, that we are not really doing OSM a service by directing people to them. ...