Note that the FEPs in this project are not "official" FEPs yet, they aren't submitted to the FEP process yet, that's just the eventual goal for them and so I've marked and labeled them as they should (hopefully) be labeled when further along.

But balancing between codeberg and GitHub and keeping everything up to date when trying to do development on a project that actively uses these was proving to be too complex, so I am working on them locally first.

@hrefna I think you reversed links no?

1) Note the differences in documentation. The DS is _very_ terse and mostly describes _what_ on a _very_ granular level, HS describes what and why on a much higher level, includes a screenshot of the expected result, and is mindful of backwards compatibility.

2) HS doesn't make extraneous changes. DS changes several things that are clearly stylistic choices in the original source, or where the original source is using a cleaner approach. DS modifies several of these to fit its "style"

2/

@hrefna super interesting, thx for writing out this comparison, actually genuinely useful to a very nooby language learner such as myself to see "bad version, good version" of a problem

We also lack fine-grained controls around these things. We don't have a way to say "I never want my post to show up in Lemmy." We don't even have a way to say "I don't want my post to ever show up on the blocked server."

Your solution if you don't want to consent to these things is _limited federation_. Not authorized fetch, but actually allowlisting the servers you talk to.

Because we don't have a way to say/enforce these, your option if you aren't comfortable is to not participate.

2/

@hrefna perfect! That’s an excellent way to frame it.

It can also be like other things, but it _is_ (or can be and often is) engineering.

I will fight those who say otherwise and I have citations to prove it.

It doesn't resemble modern structural engineering as it is practiced in the United States after 1950 or so. Agreed.

But engineering involves so so many more disciplines than structural engineering, and especially more than "structural engineering in the US post 1950."

@hrefna at least if you have documentation you can get mad at the people who don't read it.

I worked with student engineers at Purdue on projects (exhibits) for my local science center that could take years and thus saw several changes to who was on the team working on it.

I cannot scream enough about the students who did NOT read their predecessors' documentation and then proceeded to make the exact same mistakes their predecessors made.

AND as the customer how rarely they talked to ME.

@hrefna read the documentation and talk to the customer. I mean, this is (or should be) engineering 101. Or at Purdue I think it was engineering 131, which my wife taught so I KNOW they were taught. Lol.

@hrefna @mariyadelano

IMO (Yes it’s a hot take, and honestly I should probably reconsider): If people don’t read the docs I prepared, it’s their problem if they don’t get something.

They also made some assumptions in the kind of workflow they were trying to work with/encourage

1. They didn't like IDEs. They largely come from a group of devs and an era of devs who didn't (though I wouldn't say this was necessarily a common take at google at the time)

2. They _did_ like writing data structures. You feel very productive when writing data structures.

3. They were assuming something like a controlled monorepo for development

4. They wanted to optimize for training time

2/

@hrefna A detailed & nuanced take that pretty closely matches what I observed of Go from over here in my mostly #Java / #JVM world.

@hrefna @kittylyst my main take, which I think matches yours, from my Go experience, is that Go is optimized for reading while Java has become optimized for writing

@hrefna Also, yes, quote tweets are bad too.

@hrefna I’ve had more than one friend who was hounded off of public social media because of harassment+ campaigns that were started by the tropical fruit ranchers, if you’re familiar, and I’ve been feeling this acutely. And yes, they were trans people.

@hrefna of course the behavior has nothing to do with one social media app vs another. Saw a post today that derided somebody who couldn’t be any nicer if he tried as “xyz-lover” (where xyz=something objectionable). What is this all coming to? What happened to empathy, and gentleness?

Point 1:

Meta's ability to scrape is not made worse by your defederating except in the most marginal terms.

Point 2:

If I were looking to #EmbraceExtendExtinguish I wouldn't be limited to a single server and I wouldn't be deterred by a few servers who are deciding not to talk to me.

You think Meta is going to shrug their shoulders if the instance of 10 people, foobar.example.baz, decides to not federate with them?

If _everyone_ defederated with them do you think they would just give up?